Is America in Decline?-A Culture Wars Discussion

[Guilds]

@Samm

But even he would be aghast at what progressive have done to America in the last 20 years.

Nope…he would be asking why haven’t we finished his work.

[Samm]

@tnt

@Samm

@tnt

Call it whatever you want - relative to the times, those were progressive causes.

When you are hyper-partisan, definitions seem not to matter…

Progress is not progressivism. Progressivism doesn’t necessarily result in progress.

And I’m not partisan at all. I haven’t been partisan since 1967 when I was a Democrat.

Claiming all those things were not progressive is stupid.

They were.

small P progressive.

Relative to the day, they were progressive.

They also were forwarded by the progressive liberal parties of the day - which may or may not align with the progressive liberal parties of today.

saying otherwise is foolish.

You are on the right track. Capital P Progressive does not equate to lower case p, progress. The current Social Progressive movement is intent on making significant changes to our society, but there is considerable disagreement among Americans as to whether the changes they desire constitute progress or are resulting in decline of the very soul of the country. That discussion. … this discussion … is about that battle. It is not about reversing the progress that resolved the problems of servitude and inequality that plagued this country for far too many years in sharp contrast with our Classic Liberal foundation.

[Samm]

@Guilds

@Samm

Classic Liberalism.

Classic liberalism gave us slavery and women as 2nd class citizens, with no public voice, and/or the right to vote.

No! Those were in direct violation of the Principles of Classic Liberalism that was the founding philosophy of our nation. (Read the Preamble) They persisted due to political and economic compromise and the resistance of many at accept the social changes adherence to those principles would bring. But we overcame that.

[tnt]

@Samm

That discussion. … this discussion … is about that battle. It is not about reversing the progress that resolved the problems of servitude and inequality that plagued this country for far too many years in sharp contrast with our Classic Liberal foundation.

This is what this discussion is about:

You claimed:

@Samm

C’mon man. Emancipation, woman suffrage, and civil rights are not progressive ideas.

And that’s wrong.

Of course they were, and are.

And the same arguments used today against trans inclusion and gay marriage and other progressive ideas were used against them.

[Samm]

@Guilds

@Samm

But even he would be aghast at what progressive have done to America in the last 20 years.

Nope…he would be asking why haven’t we finished his work.

We did. Where you guys are headed is far beyond his wildest imagination.

[Samm]

@tnt

@Samm

That discussion. … this discussion … is about that battle. It is not about reversing the progress that resolved the problems of servitude and inequality that plagued this country for far too many years in sharp contrast with our Classic Liberal foundation.

This is what this discussion is about:

You claimed:

@Samm

C’mon man. Emancipation, woman suffrage, and civil rights are not progressive ideas.

And that’s wrong.

Of course they were, and are.

And the same arguments used today against trans inclusion and gay marriage and other progressive ideas were used against them.

Don’t get hung up on the lower case p there. You know damned well what I was saying.

[PurpnGold]

@Samm

@PurpnGold

@Samm

Live and let be is progress. Live as I want you to be is not. What Progressives are doing is degrading our society, not bettering it.

Can you provide an example movement/law that follows your definition of a “progressive” or “progressive movement”?

Sure … Trying to force everyone to accept men pretending to be women as normal. Surely you were already aware of that one. We have talked about it enough.

How are you being forced? And who is doing the forcing?

[tnt]

@Samm

Don’t get hung up on the lower case p there. You know damned well what I was saying.

No, I don’t. What you said made no sense to me.

They were progressive ideas. They were advanced by Progressive political parties and groups.

I can’t fathom why you would argue that.

[Jezcoe]

@Samm

@PurpnGold

@Samm

Live and let be is progress. Live as I want you to be is not. What Progressives are doing is degrading our society, not bettering it.

Can you provide an example movement/law that follows your definition of a “progressive” or “progressive movement”?

Sure … Trying to force everyone to accept men pretending to be women as normal. Surely you were already aware of that one. We have talked about it enough.

I notice that just like with gay people, the deep concern and definitely not a moral panic is about gay men or trans women and not gay women or trans men… like there is some sort of an attack on masculinity that just can’t stand.

Just an observation

[FreeAndClear]

@Samm

They persisted due to political and economic compromise and the resistance of many at accept the social changes adherence to those principles would bring. But we overcame tha

Wait wait wait. Are some on the right now taking credit for social change and progress including suffrage?

It was the classical liberals that pushed for gay marriage? Read the preamble?!?!

I mean it takes big voit basketballs for that. Love it.

[Jezcoe]

@tnt

@Samm

Don’t get hung up on the lower case p there. You know damned well what I was saying.

No, I don’t. What you said made no sense to me.

They were progressive ideas. They were advanced by Progressive political parties and groups.

I can’t fathom why you would argue that.

There is a certain period in American History called the Progressive era.

So….

[Jezcoe]

@Samm

economic compromise

That is a wild way to whitewash chattel slavery

[FreeAndClear]

Medicare and child labor laws were pushed for by the right version of classic liberalism

The left was against that!!!

[Guilds]

@Samm

We did. Where you guys are headed is far beyond his wildest imagination.

Not familiar with FDR’s 2nd bill of rights?

[Jezcoe]

@FreeAndClear

Medicare and child labor laws were pushed for by the right version of classic liberalism

The left was against that!!!

True classical liberals… aka Libertarians… were at the forefront of the labor movement

[FreeAndClear]

@Jezcoe

@FreeAndClear

Medicare and child labor laws were pushed for by the right version of classic liberalism

The left was against that!!!

True classical liberals… aka Libertarians… were at the forefront of the labor movement

“Nobody said that why lie”

The best

[Oldandtired]

The Republican History of Women’s Suffrage

Republicans Served As The Catalysts For the 19th Amendment

Seems you don’t know the history.

[FreeAndClear]

@Oldandtired

The Republican History of Women’s Suffrage

Republicans Served As The Catalysts For the 19th Amendment | Congresswoman Virginia Foxx
Seems you don’t know the history.

Nobody in the conversation said Republican. But keep trying. Maybe tell us about how it’s the dems who started the kkk or bring up the part about the party of slavery. You guys invented this whole alternate reality where the parties then were just like the parties now.

And then why don’t we address the terms being discussed - classic liberals and progressives or libs.

[Oldandtired]

It was you that said
Wait wait wait. Are some on the right now taking credit for social change and progress including suffrage?
Seems to me that on the right means GOP.
Now why don’t you stand by your own words instead of weaseling?

[Jezcoe]

@FreeAndClear

@Oldandtired

The Republican History of Women’s Suffrage

Republicans Served As The Catalysts For the 19th Amendment | Congresswoman Virginia Foxx
Seems you don’t know the history.

Nobody in the conversation said Republican. But keep trying. Maybe tell us about how it’s the dems who started the kkk or bring up the part about the party of slavery. You guys invented this whole alternate reality where the parties then were just like the parties now.

And then why don’t we address the terms being discussed - classic liberals and progressives or libs.

From what I hear the Democrats in the 1860’s were pretty terrible but we can’t take statues to them down.

Weird.