Iowa Passes Make Sense Legislation

[Samm]

@fallenturtle

@Samm

@fallenturtle

@Samm

@fallenturtle

It’s also child abuse since a kid can’t legally consent to braces until they are 18؟

Back to straightening teeth is child abuse? I thought you were done with that nonsense.

Its an elective procedure decided by parents for their children upon the recommendation of a doctor that’s fairly permanent. It just happens to be one we’re all morally comfortable with. Same with circumcision.

Yep… And that is the problem that the law addresses. Back to the OP.

What, transgender people in sports? We stopped discussing that a long time ago.

Sorry … We have been at this Idaho law thing so long I forgot that it wasn’t the OP.

Score one for the turtle.

[Supreme_War_Pig]

@Paul_Thomson

@Supreme_War_Pig

On this point I am, because a care provider receiving payment is not proof of ulterior motives

I certainly did not argue that “a care provider receiving payment is proof of ulterior motives.”

A care provider keeping payment when thevpatient complied and their treatment failed is a very strong indicator that they have ulterior motives.

Ah, I see what you are getting at. Tragically, it is nonsense. It is simply proof that the treatment failed.

Have you ever had a headache, took some aspirin, yet the headache remained? Is this proof that Bayer are villains? Of course not.

Now having said that, I will acknowledge that there is a surfeit of snake oil out there. This is why we have organizations such as the AMA who review and study these claims, and issue recommendations.

And interestingly, the AMA has determined that gender dysphoria is real.

[Samm]

@fallenturtle

@Samm

@fallenturtle

@Samm

@fallenturtle

@Samm

@Supreme_War_Pig

In and of themselves, probably not. As part of a compressive treatment plan? They can remove the cause of gender dysphoria. That’s not a treatment, that is a cure.

Cite the study that shows that puberty causes gender dysphoria.

You need a study to tell you that a young transgender boy will have increased dysphoria when they start developing breasts?

No. I’m saying that it’s the psychiatrist’s job to see that the kid gets over her dysphoria.

You don’t like their recommendation.

My feelings have nothing to do with it.

Your feelings have everything to do with you rejecting what most doctors recommend.

Nope. Not in the least. My opinion is based solely on facts and logic. I could not care less about shrinks bilking their delusional patients. I only feel sorry for the kids who will be scared for life if and when they come to the realization that their dysphoria was all in their heads.

BTY You still haven’t backed up that “majority of doctors” thing. Are you going to do that ir should we just let it go?

[Supreme_War_Pig]

@Samm

@fallenturtle

@Samm

@fallenturtle

@Samm

@fallenturtle

@Samm

@Supreme_War_Pig

In and of themselves, probably not. As part of a compressive treatment plan? They can remove the cause of gender dysphoria. That’s not a treatment, that is a cure.

Cite the study that shows that puberty causes gender dysphoria.

You need a study to tell you that a young transgender boy will have increased dysphoria when they start developing breasts?

No. I’m saying that it’s the psychiatrist’s job to see that the kid gets over her dysphoria.

You don’t like their recommendation.

My feelings have nothing to do with it.

Your feelings have everything to do with you rejecting what most doctors recommend.

Nope. Not in the least. My opinion is based solely on facts and logic. I could not care less about shrinks bilking their delusional patients. I only feel sorry for the kids who will be scared for life if and when they come to the realization that their dysphoria was all in their heads.

While I don’t necessarily agree with the substance of this post, I can certainly understand the sentiment.

This is why you can’t just walk into a doctor’s office and begin gender reassignment. There is a lengthy process of examination and evaluation before it begins.

[Paul_Thomson]

@Supreme_War_Pig

Have you ever had a headache, took some aspirin, yet the headache remained? Is this proof that Bayer are villains? Of course not

“Proof”? “Villains”?

Why do you insist on misrepresenting my statements in a dishonestly extreme paraphrase?

Is it because you can’t argue against my actual position?

[PurpnGold]

@Samm

@PurpnGold

@Samm

@Supreme_War_Pig

Even mental illness.

Puberty blockers don’t treat mental illness.

Well someone should tell the DSM

Absolutely. Somebody should.

But I bet they already know that.

You cracked the code! As a non-doctor!

[Supreme_War_Pig]

@Paul_Thomson

@Supreme_War_Pig

Have you ever had a headache, took some aspirin, yet the headache remained? Is this proof that Bayer are villains? Of course not

“Proof”? “Villains”?

Why do you insist on misrepresenting my statements in a dishonestly extreme paraphrase?

Is it because you can’t argue against my actual position?

I am arguing against your position, you just seem unable to comprehend.

[Paul_Thomson]

[quote=“Supreme_War_Pig, post:963, topic:241521, full:true”]

@Paul_Thomson

@Supreme_War_Pig

Have you ever had a headache, took some aspirin, yet the headache remained? Is this proof that Bayer are villains? Of course not
[/quote]

“Proof”? “Villains”?

Why do you insist on misrepresenting my statements in a dishonestly extreme paraphrase?

Is it because you can’t argue against my actual position?

I am arguing against your position, you just seem unable to comprehend.

No. You are creating straw men and pretending they are my argument.

[Striker840]

@Supreme_War_Pig

@DMK

@Supreme_War_Pig

Okay, but doctors and patients might disagree.

So dermatologists, plastic surgeons, and dentist also perform elective procedures. All of them are also suspicious, because they are making money?

Would you be okay with a parent allowing their child to have breast implants at age five? Okay with the doctor doing it?

Or, do you think the child should develop naturally and make that decision when they are 18 or older?

Yeah, the parent would be a moron and so would the doctor.

A doctor who performs a gender change for a minor is the bottom of the earth as far as I am concerned.

And all of that is fine to think, let’s just not make out that evil doctors do this for money.

That was my only point.

So they do it for free??

[Supreme_War_Pig]

@Paul_Thomson

No. You are creating straw men and pretending they are my argument.

Okay, let’s go back to the beginning. The initial post I responded to was (in part) this:

@Paul_Thomson

@PurpnGold

Such experts in the field write papers “showing” their expertise is needed. And other “experts in the field” peer review and agree with them that they are all doing God’s work. If you think all doctors became doctors to care for humanity, you are gullible. Many do so because there is s good living to be made by being perceived as an expert by the ignorant.

You are implying that while doctors and medical organizations may agree that gender dysphoria is real, and gender reassignment is an appropriate treatment, they can’t be trusted, and in fact may be doing this because ‘there is a good living to be made’.

The point that I have repeatedly tried to make is that getting paid for providing health care is NOT evidence of ulterior motives.

You then spun off into this nonsense that if a treatment fails a refund is required. I engaged you on it because I am a good natured fellow. But frankly, this position is ridiculous, and even more importantly, irrelevant to the discussion.

So, let me restate in terms even you might understand: getting paid for providing health care is not evidence of perfidy.

[Supreme_War_Pig]

See above

[Striker840]

@Supreme_War_Pig

See above

I read above, so??

[Samm]

@PurpnGold

@Samm

@PurpnGold

@Samm

@Supreme_War_Pig

Even mental illness.

Puberty blockers don’t treat mental illness.

Well someone should tell the DSM

Absolutely. Somebody should.

But I bet they already know that.

You cracked the code! As a non-doctor!

Well, it was pretty darned simple.

[Supreme_War_Pig]

@Striker840

@Supreme_War_Pig

See above

I read above, so??

If you can’t discern the answer to your question, I can’t help you.

[Eagle-Keeper]

@Jezcoe

@e7alr

The mental condition is the inability to accept the reality of their body and sex. Ethical treatment would support, encourage and enable the sufferer to come to grips with and accept reality. What your pushing isn’t treatment. It is nothing more than a futile attempt to offer false validation of their sad delusion. And when dealing with pre-teen and early teen minors, the claim of certain diagnosis of such a condition smacks of malpractice for the purpose of virtue signaling.

That is not how the treatment for gender dysphoria works.

Can’t they simply get the counseling they need explaining how gender is a social construct and not a real thing?

[Guvnah]

@Samm

Cite the study that shows that puberty causes gender dysphoria.

Lib parents and teachers nudging kids into confusion with woke “compassion” manufactures dysphoria.

[Guvnah]

@Samm

Back to straightening teeth is child abuse? I thought you were done with that nonsense.

[e7alr]

Are points of view of what constitutes a social construct a philosophical opinion or a medical fact?

What is the definition of the word “affirm.?”

Does surgically changing the appearance of a body, from it’s natural form, affirm or deceive?

Does artificially altering the development of a body, through the application of unnatural levels of hormones, and chemical inhibitors, for the purpose of altering outward appearance, affirm or deceive?

[Paul_Thomson]

@Supreme_War_Pig

The point that I have repeatedly tried to make is that getting paid for providing health care is NOT evidence of ulterior motives

Getting paid is a potential motive for prescribing a treatment. I never said it proves the motive is purely pecuniary. It is certainly foolish to assume that because a person is a qualified doctor they must have the best interests of the patient in mind above their own financial gain.

I do think that salesmen who do not stand behind their medical products are pushing onto desperate people a product they don’t really believe in. Their reason for doing that is usually their own financial gain.

[Supreme_War_Pig]

@Paul_Thomson

@Supreme_War_Pig

The point that I have repeatedly tried to make is that getting paid for providing health care is NOT evidence of ulterior motives

Getting paid is a potential motive for prescribing a treatment. I never said it proves the motive is purely pecuniary. It is certainly foolish to assume that because a person is a qualified doctor they must have the best interests of the patient in mind above their own financial gain.

I do think that salesmen who do not stand behind their medical products are pushing onto desperate people a product they don’t really believe in. Their reason for doing that is usually their own financial gain.

Okay, we’ll leave it there.