Iowa Passes Make Sense Legislation

[Conservative_frk]

@fallenturtle

Are you cool with me calling you goodmom409?

I have been mistaken for a “he” on this message board for many years. Doesn’t bother me a bit.
If a person presents to me as a woman, appears to be a woman, then I will refer to that person as woman. I don’t know for lack of a better term “ what’s under the skirt”. I would never be hurtful or disrespectful to anyone.

[fallenturtle]

@Conservative_frk

@fallenturtle

Are you cool with me calling you goodmom409?

I have been mistaken for a “he” on this message board for many years. Doesn’t bother me a bit.
If a person presents to me as a woman, appears to be a woman, then I will refer to that person as woman. I don’t know for lack of a better term “ what’s under the skirt”. I would never be hurtful or disrespectful to anyone.

What if they presenting as a woman, but you can tell from their facial structure that they are biologically male?

[Conservative_frk]

I would be polite

[fallenturtle]

@Conservative_frk

I would be polite

If that means referring to them by their gender identity and its associated pronouns, or just avoiding it, then that’s great.

[Striker840]

@fallenturtle

@Paul_Thomson

This is the dyswoke MO. This is the progressive MO. This is the Marxist MO.This is the Lib MO.

This is how “transgender woman” came, contrary to grammar, to mean in so many weak minds “a man/male whose psyche has predominantly what are culturally considered masculine traits” instead of its logical sense of “a woman/female whose psyche has predominantly what are culturally considered masculine traits”.

And from there his fake woman hood was given a veneer of validity, because, well, it’s in his title, "transgender woman ".

And if he’s entitled "a woman ", he’s entitled to the pronouns “she” and “her”.

And if he’s a transgender woman , it must be rude to call him “he”.

And eventually it is hate speech to call him “he”.

This transition to dyswoke transgenderism, like all dyswoke, Lib, Progressive, and Marxist social changes, is accomplished by relentlessly pushing, dogging, lobbying and harrassing until the opposition have to take a break to achieve other meaningful good in the world, while the dyswoke activists keep pushing, pushing, pushing.

“The person who was defeated is the one who gives up.”

And they push, dog, lobby and harrass the elected leading bodies of government, universities, media, medical associations, research institutes, publishers and even dictionaries, to change the language and labels to better support their dyswoke worldview.

More conspiratorial nonsense.

Its more like, transgender people and gay people were considered mentally ill and so they were studied by psychiatrists and sexologists who through meeting with them and much research and studies over time came to the conclusions that these conditions didn’t meet the criteria for mental illness and that it didn’t seem to be possible through therapy and/or drugs to make these people not queer. At the same time these ostracized groups found community with each other and developed their own culture and sociologists started studying these cultures, theorists starting writing about them, and between all these groups a lexicon began to emerge and over time words fell out of favor, or into favor, or new words were created, to describe their experiences and identities.

It’s not part of some Marxist plot to subvert American culture and cause the country to collapse.

@Paul_Thomson

I refuse to long march to transgender dyswokeness. I refuse the first step. I refuse to lie and to refer to “a transgender man” as "a transgender woman*. Logic says that a transgender man is a man/male who is transgender.

You’re still working under the incorrect assumption that the male/female in “transgender male/female” refers to biological sex and not gender identity.

For most of our history it HAS been one and the same. Not until relatively recently has it changed, one may think it was changed just for this.

[fallenturtle]

@Striker840

@fallenturtle

@Paul_Thomson

This is the dyswoke MO. This is the progressive MO. This is the Marxist MO.This is the Lib MO.

This is how “transgender woman” came, contrary to grammar, to mean in so many weak minds “a man/male whose psyche has predominantly what are culturally considered masculine traits” instead of its logical sense of “a woman/female whose psyche has predominantly what are culturally considered masculine traits”.

And from there his fake woman hood was given a veneer of validity, because, well, it’s in his title, "transgender woman ".

And if he’s entitled "a woman ", he’s entitled to the pronouns “she” and “her”.

And if he’s a transgender woman , it must be rude to call him “he”.

And eventually it is hate speech to call him “he”.

This transition to dyswoke transgenderism, like all dyswoke, Lib, Progressive, and Marxist social changes, is accomplished by relentlessly pushing, dogging, lobbying and harrassing until the opposition have to take a break to achieve other meaningful good in the world, while the dyswoke activists keep pushing, pushing, pushing.

“The person who was defeated is the one who gives up.”

And they push, dog, lobby and harrass the elected leading bodies of government, universities, media, medical associations, research institutes, publishers and even dictionaries, to change the language and labels to better support their dyswoke worldview.

More conspiratorial nonsense.

Its more like, transgender people and gay people were considered mentally ill and so they were studied by psychiatrists and sexologists who through meeting with them and much research and studies over time came to the conclusions that these conditions didn’t meet the criteria for mental illness and that it didn’t seem to be possible through therapy and/or drugs to make these people not queer. At the same time these ostracized groups found community with each other and developed their own culture and sociologists started studying these cultures, theorists starting writing about them, and between all these groups a lexicon began to emerge and over time words fell out of favor, or into favor, or new words were created, to describe their experiences and identities.

It’s not part of some Marxist plot to subvert American culture and cause the country to collapse.

@Paul_Thomson

I refuse to long march to transgender dyswokeness. I refuse the first step. I refuse to lie and to refer to “a transgender man” as "a transgender woman*. Logic says that a transgender man is a man/male who is transgender.

You’re still working under the incorrect assumption that the male/female in “transgender male/female” refers to biological sex and not gender identity.

For most of our history it HAS been one and the same. Not until relatively recently has it changed, one may think it was changed just for this.

The idea of gender and sex being distinct is a concept that is 40+ years old and was not because of transgender people but because of research, sociologists, and feminists work in studying gender identity, expression, and roles and their relation to biological sex.

I’m not sure what you consider “relatively recent”, but society and technology have changed a lot in the last 40 years.

[WuWei]

@fallenturtle

If that means referring to them by their gender identity and its associated pronouns, or just avoiding it, then that’s great.

You’re their spokesman?

[Samm]

@fallenturtle

@Samm

@fallenturtle

@Samm

@fallenturtle

@Samm

Pick a subject … any subject.

Which is easier to write, a punk song or a techno song.

Techno.

I’d probably agree, especially now a days. But what does this have to do with our disagreement on transgender people?

You tell me … You’re the one who brought it up.

You’re the one who told me to pick a subject, any subject. Now the ball is in your court to explain how this subject demonstrates the deep disagreement we are having that is the root to our disagreement on transgender people.

You brought it up and I gave you my answer. There was no condition that the subject had to have anything to do with transgender people. That association is entirely on you.

[Samm]

@TheRedComet

It’s a dreadful operation. The worst elective surgery on the planet.

Although I think that’s why the majority of them choose not to get it. Not just because of money, but because the transition surgery for males to trans females is the stuff of nightmare fuel.

Not if that’s what you always dreamed of.

[fallenturtle]

@Samm

@fallenturtle

@Samm

@fallenturtle

@Samm

@fallenturtle

@Samm

Pick a subject … any subject.

Which is easier to write, a punk song or a techno song.

Techno.

I’d probably agree, especially now a days. But what does this have to do with our disagreement on transgender people?

You tell me … You’re the one who brought it up.

You’re the one who told me to pick a subject, any subject. Now the ball is in your court to explain how this subject demonstrates the deep disagreement we are having that is the root to our disagreement on transgender people.

You brought it up and I gave you my answer. There was no condition that the subject had to have anything to do with transgender people. That association is entirely on you.

What is the deep deep deep misunderstanding that we have then? We both agreed it was easier to write a techno song.

[Samm]

There is no misunderstanding on my part.

[fallenturtle]

@Samm

There is no misunderstanding on my part.

Do you think gender identity is ■■■■■■■■ and not a thing separate from our biological sex?

[Striker840]

Hmmm, I wonder why almost anything that asks if someone is male or female uses sex/gender as the header for the selection. My drivers license which I just renewed this year clearly says “sex” and when I filled out the form it didn’t have “other” as an option.

[fallenturtle]

@Striker840

Hmmm, I wonder why almost anything that asks if someone is male or female uses sex/gender as the header for the selection. My drivers license which I just renewed this year clearly says “sex” and when I filled out the form it didn’t have “other” as an option.

Because you don’t live in one of the 22 other states that do have an option for non-binary and have labeled the field as “gender”.

[Paul_Thomson]

@fallenturtle

Are you cool with me calling you goodmom409?

I have no control over what you call me. It’s one of the things God’s grace allows me to accept because I cannot change it. People talk BS a lot.

[Paul_Thomson]

@fallenturtle

@Paul_Thomson

The proper cognates for gender are masculine and feminine , not male/man and female/woman .

You are under the dyswoke delusion that male/man and female/woman are valid gender categories. They are properly biological sex categories.

I don’t see transgender men calling themselves “transgender masculine” or transgender women calling themselves “transgender feminine” anytime soon. Or for that matter everyone who considers gender identity separate from sex referring to them selves as a feminine or a masculine instead of woman/female or man/male.

No. Neither do I.

Because in the term “transgender female”, female is being used as a noun, not an adjective. In other words, the person is biologically female or a woman. What kind of biogical female/woman? They are a transgender biological female/woman. A cis gender biological female/woman identifies as having a feminine gender identity. So a transgender biological female identifies as having a masculine gender identity. (Gender identity being merely a socially construct pastiche of feelings and behaviours that are considered culturally appropiate for one or other particular biological sex.)

That use of male/female, man/woman, masculine/feminine, transgender and transgender identity is proper scientifically and grammatically.

What would also be true is that a transgender female or woman is a biological female/woman with a masculine gender identity.

Transgender masculine is grammatically inadequate as a nominal, since both are being used as adjectives. Like “orange small” makes no grammatical sense as a thing. Masculine transgender would work, since transgender can be a noun. Like “small orange” makes grammatically sense as a thing.

I could see a transgender female calling herself a masculine transgender. A masculine transgender would be a person with a masculine gender identity who is also transgender and therefore is biologically a female/woman.

My use of the words is historically, grammatically and scientifically accurate. However, dyswoke “experts” shamed or brow-beaten into pandering to transgender sensitivities, have departed from orthodoxy in the use of these terms, and allowed dyswoke apologists to drive their transgender convoy through the resultant loophole.

[Samm]

@fallenturtle

@Samm

There is no misunderstanding on my part.

Do you think gender identity is ■■■■■■■■ and not a thing separate from our biological sex?

You’re going in circles. Get onto new ground or this conversation is dead.

[Samm]

@Striker840

Hmmm, I wonder why almost anything that asks if someone is male or female uses sex/gender as the header for the selection. My drivers license which I just renewed this year clearly says “sex” and when I filled out the form it didn’t have “other” as an option.

Yeah, but they don’t grade your answers, so it probably doesn’t matter whether you enter m or f.

[fallenturtle]

@Paul_Thomson

@fallenturtle

Are you cool with me calling you goodmom409?

I have no control over what you call me. It’s one of the things God’s grace allows me to accept because I cannot change it. People talk BS a lot.

Good to know, goodmon409.

As an agnostic I can also not care what people say about me.

[fallenturtle]

@Paul_Thomson

Because in the term “transgender female”, female is being used as a noun, not an adjective. In other words, the person is biologically female or a woman. What kind of biogical female/woman? They are a transgender biological female/woman. A cis gender biological female/woman identifies as having a feminine gender identity. So a transgender biological female identifies as having a masculine gender identity.

When it comes to identity you are often dealing with nouns and in the case of gender identity you are. A transgender person identifies themselves by their gender identity and not their biological sex.

(Gender identity being merely a socially construct pastiche of feelings and behaviours that are considered culturally appropriate for one or other particular biological sex.)

That’s not what gender identity is… what you describing is more gender expression. Gender identity is our self-conception of whether we are a man or a woman (or somewhere in between). For most of us our gender identity matches our biological sex and we don’t really think about it, but when they don’t match it feels wrong.

@Paul_Thomson

Transgender masculine is grammatically inadequate as a nominal, since both are being used as adjectives. Like “orange small” makes no grammatical sense as a thing. Masculine transgender would work, since transgender can be a noun. Like “small orange” makes grammatically sense as a thing.

Transgender is primarily an adjective. It’s only used as a noun in some older texts and when used as a pejorative. So the person’s gender identity is male/female, a noun, and transgender or cisgender describes what kid of male/female.

@Paul_Thomson

My use of the words is historically, grammatically and scientifically accurate. However, dyswoke “experts” shamed or brow-beaten into pandering to transgender sensitivities, have departed from orthodoxy in the use of these terms, and allowed dyswoke apologists to drive their transgender convoy through the resultant loophole.

Always back to the conspiracy theories. I think the issue is that you don’t fully grok what gender identity is.