In July, New Mexico will require background checks on all gun sales

[kermode]

That wasn’t the question I asked.

[Ramblin_Man]

@Oldandtired

Me, I own no guns. They were all lost in a fire in the barn many years ago

So it is true that criminals won’t obey gun laws… Hmm.

[Oldandtired]

Do you really think that criminals are going to have a background check run on the people they sell guns to?
As I said you all are going after the wrong people. Law abiding citizens are not the ones you should worry about but they are the only ones you seen to want to punish.
This has nothing to do with stopping gun violence. To some people it’s all about well we tried. To others it is the first step to gun confiscation.

[Ramblin_Man]

@Oldandtired

As I said you all are going after the wrong people. Law abiding citizens are not the ones you should worry about but they are the only ones you seen to want to punish.

You mean law abiding citizens like you who are proudly posting about how they would lie about having broken this “stupid” law by selling a gun to someone with no background check or about how ‘all their guns were lost in a barn fire’, those kind of law abiding citizens?

[Ramblin_Man]

@Oldandtired

How are they going to prove I was the one who sold the gun. It’s not like criminals are good honest citizens.

Do me a favor and after you read the above accusation from your post about criminals, read the rest of your post below and tell us which one is the one lying in your little story.

@Oldandtired

He will say I sold the gun. I will say I have never owned that gun. Now what do they do?

I guess it really isn’t like criminals are good honest people.

[Samm]

@BlueTex

@Samm

I’m under no mistaken beliefs. The testimony of the criminal on trial is not proof that you sold him the gun.

People go to prison every day in this country based on the testimony of criminals…

Not without corroborating evidence. If it’s nothing more than their word against my word, I’m not going to prison.

[Samm]

@BlueTex

@Steel-W0LF

Not without evidence in addition to the testimony.

Criminal: Steel-W0LF sold me a gun!

Me: No I didn’t.

Now what?

Please, you want to argue a strawman case you are making up… My point stands, sheriff’s do not seek indictments, prosecutors do… Judges then issue arrest warrants… If the sheriff’s refuse to execute the arrest warrants, judges have plenty of powers within their authority to enforce the orders of the courts…

The only strawman is that this law is enforceable.

[Samm]

@kermode

Well, actually there is a record of what gun you purchased if you bought it from an FFL.
Here’s how it would go in my state for a gun I bought after 12/1/14:

At the trial criminal says I sold him a gun.
Me: no I didn’t

Prosecutor: Well according to the records you bought it on 2/14/15; if not to the criminal, who did you sell it to, then?

I sold it to some guy on 2/15/15 … can’t remember his name, but it wasn’t that guy.

Or … I lost that one while on a camping trip. I assumed it was when the canoe overturned.

[Samm]

@Phaedrus

@Samm

At some point, when the law becomes too onerous, too invasive, too ridiculous … the law abiding become criminals.

I guess we disagree on how onerous engaging in a simple background check would be.

If they allowed me to access the NICS without having to hire an FFL I would be more than happy to voluntarily run a background check on a buyer who I could not personally vouch for. In the mean time, the current law that makes it illegal to knowingly sell a gun to someone who cannot legally possess one is sufficient. This law is an unnecessary, ineffective and burdensome imposition on my right to sell my personal property.

[kermode]

Might work.
I prefer to direct them to the FFL where I transferred the firearm.

[Samm]

@Ramblin_Man

@Samm

@Ramblin_Man

Nice gun hugger logic shown by those counties. Don’t enforce the laws and then claim laws don’t work. Brilliant.

That’s not what I said. I said if they don’t know that you own a gun, they won’t know if you sell it. In other words, the law is unenforceable on its face, therefore, it would be a waste of time for LEOs to try.

Good lord man, you aren’t even aware of everything that you put in your post. I was clearly referring to this portion of your post which has no stipulations on it. It simply says they will refuse to enforce the law. And please spare me any of the ridiculous parsing that we’ve all grown to expect.

@Samm

From the link:

The declarations say the counties effectively will refuse to enforce the law.”

I can’t help it if you aren’t clear about what part of my post you are referring to. But regardless, my response is still appropriate. The law is unenforceable regardless whether the counties try to enforce it or not.

[Samm]

@Ramblin_Man

@Oldandtired

They are going to have real trouble enforcing this law as no one knows who owns what. So, I could sell a gun I have owned since the 60’s to someone and they have no way of knowing that I sold it and who I sold it to.

Yeah, God forbid that any supposedly law abiding gun owners actually be expected to obey the law. What the ■■■■ were these dummies thinking?

Why should they? It’s nobody’s damn business what they do with their personal property.

[Samm]

@SpacemanSpiff

@Oldandtired

How are they going to prove I was the one who sold the gun. It’s not like criminals are good honest citizens. He will say I sold the gun. I will say I have never owned that gun. Now what do they do?

Charge you anyway leaving you with the choice of either taking a plea deal, or taking your chances with a jury who might or might not convict, but still leaving you with a huge pile of legal expenses.

No evidence, no indictment.

[Samm]

@Oldandtired

If the gun had been private property for over twenty years and I decided to sell it the FFL and the state and federal government would have no clue as to where the gun came from. Now tell me where the record is of that sale?

Part of the problem we face here Oldandtired, is that most anti-gun folks have no idea what the existing law is.

[mobulis]

@Samm

@kermode

Well, actually there is a record of what gun you purchased if you bought it from an FFL.
Here’s how it would go in my state for a gun I bought after 12/1/14:

At the trial criminal says I sold him a gun.
Me: no I didn’t

Prosecutor: Well according to the records you bought it on 2/14/15; if not to the criminal, who did you sell it to, then?

I sold it to some guy on 2/15/15 … can’t remember his name, but it wasn’t that guy.

Or … I lost that one while on a camping trip. I assumed it was when the canoe overturned.

So you have no problem with criminals getting guns.

[Samm]

@mobulis

@Samm

@kermode

Well, actually there is a record of what gun you purchased if you bought it from an FFL.
Here’s how it would go in my state for a gun I bought after 12/1/14:

At the trial criminal says I sold him a gun.
Me: no I didn’t

Prosecutor: Well according to the records you bought it on 2/14/15; if not to the criminal, who did you sell it to, then?

I sold it to some guy on 2/15/15 … can’t remember his name, but it wasn’t that guy.

Or … I lost that one while on a camping trip. I assumed it was when the canoe overturned.

So you have no problem with criminals getting guns.

Not if it means the government taking my guns in a naive move to get theirs. Besides, as I said, it’s not the responsibility or the duty of individual citizens to disarm criminals. If the government wants to disarm criminals they should do so, but they have zero right to disarm me in the process.

[Samm]

@Ramblin_Man

So you’re for everyone being able to buy and own guns no matter what their history is? Is that right? Or do you only deem some gun laws unconstitutional?

If a person has had their Constitutional Rights suspended or removed through Due Process it is not the responsibility or the duty of individuals to police that Court action. What’s next, a shop owner being required to run a background check on all customers to see if they have a 500 ft restraining order issued by the owner of the shop next door or maybe see if they are a convicted pedophile and you often get kids in your store? Where does it stop?

[BlueTex]

@Samm

The only strawman is that this law is enforceable.

California has had virtually the same law in place since 1991… Shall I start listing all those that have been charged?

[SpacemanSpiff]

Still gonna have to shell out for a lawyer. Guess you’ll have to decide whether you’d rather pay a couple bucks for the FFL transfer or a couple thousand bucks in legal fees.

[Ramblin_Man]

Great gun hugger logic on display. Refuse to obey laws that will help keep guns out of criminals hands and then say la la la… gun laws don’t work.

I’ll bet this Air Force Officer feels a lot like you about obeying gun laws.

The Texas church shooter shouldn’t have been able to legally own a gun.

But an Air Force officer failed to enter Devin Patrick Kelley’s domestic violence court-martial into a national database that would have barred him from buying weapons, the Air Force said Monday.

I bet the 25 people Devin killed wish he didn’t.