ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS should be considered a FELONY CRIME

WildRose · 2020-04-25T03:24:12.871Z

Don’t combine the steps it’s too confusing.

You cut down your tree and cut it into lumber, then sell it to the table maker… .

Baby steps are needed.

TheDoctorIsIn · 2020-04-25T03:30:00.766Z

If you grow a tree, cut it down and sell it to me for $400 - and I take those tree pieces and build a cabinet that I sell for $700, I have created wealth.

WildRose · 2020-04-25T03:30:59.688Z

No you haven’t, you’ve added to the value of the tree with your labor and ingenuity but the wealth was already in tree to start with.

TheDoctorIsIn · 2020-04-25T03:32:02.300Z

This is incorrect and false.

WildRose · 2020-04-25T03:36:09.673Z

No it isn’t, again that’s why value added taxes generate so much revenue.

Without that tree you had nothing to build with. Your labor and ingenuity added value to the raw materials but the wealth was already in the tree.

That’s why the guy selling the trees will retire 20 years before the laborer.

TheDoctorIsIn · 2020-04-25T03:38:05.901Z

WildRose:

Without that tree you had nothing to build with. Your labor and ingenuity added value to the raw materials but the wealth was already in the tree.

Without me as a cabinetmaker, the owner of the tree has no one to sell it to.

The tree itself is worthless, if there’s no one to buy it.

WildRose · 2020-04-25T03:41:34.250Z

Wrong.

He could sell it to a mill to build bridges, homes or anything else none of which could be built without his tree.

The wealth is in the tree, the profits at each step beyond the sale are limited then to value added in processing etc or even more limited at the wholesale/retail end.

That is why China and the US both became so enormously wealthy so quickly.

We both took things out of the ground, water, and sky and created things of great value with them and sold them overseas.

If you keep every aspect from extraction to final production in your country you keep all of the profits from adding value at each step of the way.

Walmart will do lucky to clear 10% on the resale and China keeps about 80% because essentially all they are out is transportation and they’ll even get the profit from that using their own ships to transport it to the US.

TheDoctorIsIn · 2020-04-25T04:15:09.751Z

WildRose:

He could sell it to a mill to build bridges, homes or anything else none of which could be built without his tree.

The wealth is in the tree, the profits at each step beyond the sale are limited then to value added in processing etc or even more limited at the wholesale/retail end.

No, the wealth isn’t in the “tree” - the wealth is intrinsic to what can be done with a tree. An unsold tree is worthless.

WildRose:

That is why China and the US both became so enormously wealthy so quickly.

We both took things out of the ground, water, and sky and created things of great value with them and sold them overseas.

If you keep every aspect from extraction to final production in your country you keep all of the profits from adding value at each step of the way.

This is all garbage.

WildRose:

Walmart will do lucky to clear 10% on the resale and China keeps about 80% because essentially all they are out is transportation and they’ll even get the profit from that using their own ships to transport it to the US.

And yet, for the millions of people that walk into the doors of Walmarts across America each day - what for them?

WildRose · 2020-04-25T04:35:50.263Z

You remain completely wrong. If the value wasn’t in the tree nobody would buy it to start with.

The rest just shows an embarrassingly lacking of understanding of history and economics.

WildRose · 2020-04-25T04:37:15.196Z

And yet, for the millions of people that walk into the doors of Walmarts across America each day - what for them?

Cheap disposable crap of no real long term value and an ever shrinking standard of living.

This is one of the driving forces behind wealth inequality.

Today you and I each spend 10k.

For my 10k, I buy some undeveloped acreage ten miles from the city.

For yours, you buy a car.

In twenty years my 10k has grown into 50-100k because as the town grows outward demand for property skyrockets.

In twenty years your 10k car is maybe 200lbs of scrap.

My land grew in value because it represented inherent wealth.

Oh, I also sank a nice gas well on my property that has made me 10K per year every year since I bought it because I was smart enough to get 100% of the minerals when I bought as well.

My initial 10k has now grown to several about 300k because again, the wealth was already in the ground.

TheDoctorIsIn · 2020-04-25T05:20:35.576Z

WildRose:

You remain completely wrong. If the value wasn’t in the tree nobody would buy it to start with.

The value isn’t a part of the tree - the value comes from what the tree can be made into.

TheDoctorIsIn · 2020-04-25T05:22:12.289Z

That’s an interesting story, I guess. What’s your point?

7ranz · 2020-04-25T05:27:27.802Z

No it shouldn’t be.

WildRose · 2020-04-25T05:32:09.169Z

That this conversation is a complete waste of time. I can’t force you to learn anything and I’m not going to waste any more time on it.

TheDoctorIsIn · 2020-04-25T05:34:09.704Z

WildRose:

That this conversation is a complete waste of time. I can’t force you to learn anything and I’m not going to waste any more time on it.

Of course. That must be it.

Buh-bye.

TheDoctorIsIn · 2020-04-25T05:50:51.481Z

I know you’ve already flounced out of this conversation, but I’m interested in learning more about your ■■■■■■■ theories about how wealth is created.

Is there anyone you can cite to, or did you just make it all up as you went along?

DLaw · 2022-06-26T22:04:19.224Z

Well, I’m not exactly retired! But this entire discussion seem to be directed at persons apprehended actually illegally crossing into the US without inspection. But there are distinctions. Unlawful entry is already a priorable offense with a first conviction being a misdemeanor and subsequent convictions felonies. Then comes the reality - the time and expense of district court prosecution for unlawful entry. These cases can take months, usually years to adjudicate. Following a criminal complaint or indictment, even if the person pleads guilty on the very first date before a judge or magistrate with lawful ability to accept a plea, next comes 6-8 weeks of preparing a presentence report, then sentencing, then compliance with the courts’ orders.

But there is another class of people who are merely “unlawfully present” without proof of unlawful entry. This constitutes a high percentage of so-called "illegal aliens. They include visitors, students, temporary workers with expired visas who never departed. it included those who applied for asylum, were denied, and never departed. NONE of these individuals are deemed in violation of criminal law and their cases, presumptively, go to immigration court before an administrative law judge (e.g. civil). Those cases can take 5 years or more to adjudicate in merits or masters hearings. In fact the time between hearings has increased from an average of 6 months to, now, 12-18 months (simply due to overcrowded calendars).

BraveGear · 2022-06-26T22:13:19.568Z

What that demonstrates is that our immigration system is flawed, and foreign entities are taking advantage. I don’t blame them; I blame those that allow this to continue for political reasons.

DLaw · 2022-06-26T23:57:07.213Z

No kidding.

FlameHeart · 2022-06-29T13:19:01.386Z

I don’t think they should be charged. It would be better to release them and ask to come back through legally. A lot of these individuals are seeking a better life away from political corruption in their own countries.