Never. Good that happens is because of a miracle from god. Bad things? “Free will” or Satan. That’s why christians had to invent a devil. To absolve god from the bad that happens in the world.
Actually he is. If you don’t accept him, you’ll be punished by being sent to hell.
Hell is separation from God–i.e., the heaven for those who do not accept God.
**[quote=“ImRightYoureWrong, post:79, topic:129116, full:true”]
Oh so we dont have accept him in heaven?
You accept him on Earth or not at all.
He didn’t ask you. You are here. Would you prefer not to be?
No, we pretty much bring the bad things on ourselves.
It may well be. I oftentimes don’t keep track of screen names. Only those who say really egregious things - like Gnostic Bishop - stay in my memory.
So, you believe Saul and David existed? More importantly, do you believe that there are no mistakes in the Bible? No inconsistencies?
See, that’s an egregious thing to say.
The nuns raped by priests. The choirboys raped by priests. They brought that on themselves? Or their parents or grandparents sinned against God, and so God punished everyone unto the third generation for the sins of the grandparents?
God isn’t a tyrant? But he’ll send to hell everyrone who won’t - or can’t - accept him as he is.
That’s the definition of a tyrant.
OK, so “free will” as I stated in my post. So what percentage of the good things that happen are due to god and what percentage are also “free will?”
Don’t forget the Egyptian plagues or god killing everyone on earth in the Noah myth.
Yes. I’ve been reading the Old Testament. Got as far as Samuel 2 last night.
God deliberately hardening Pharoah’s heart 9 times so he could continue to demonstrate his power to the Jews…never mind all the innocent Egyptians that died because of it.
Then of course there was the ‘spoiiling’ of the Eguptians. Not enough that God had sent all these plagues to make the Egypitans suffer but then he encourages the Israelis to rob them as well…
The Flood has never made any sense…God repents that he’s made man, who has been sin-natured since the Fall, and so he kills everyone on the planet… but then decides to let Noah’s family live so sin stays in the world…there’s no logic there.
There are other instances where God doesn’t give a person free will but rather ‘hardens their heart’ so they do evil so they can be killed…
I’m reading these things and, as a literalist, thinking…what the heck? This is a loving God?
What if you change your mind in Heaven/New Earth?
Again, it’s difficult to discuss Christianity and God with someone who isn’t. Reading the Bible is not the same as understanding the Bible.
God did not cause pharaohs heart to harden. Take a lump of clay in one hand and a lump of butter in the other. Take them outside on a hot summer day and lay them side by side on the asphalt. What happens to each? The butter melts but the clay hardens. How is this possible when it’s the same sun acting on both? Is it the sun or the nature of the substance being exposed to it?
Perhaps you could quote the Bible verse that you are basing this analogy on?
Exodus 7:3 King James Version (KJV)
3 And I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.
Then how did Satan and his angels rebel?
Its like someone holding a gun to your head saying “bow to me.” If you dont you get shot. But you were given a choice, the shooter was so nice.
Nothing makes sense. Explain one thing contradict another. Endless tail chasing.
The interesting thing I always found about the Bible story.
*Paradise with the angels in heaven…Satan rebels.
*Paradise on Earth in the Garden of Eden…humans rebel.
Yet when we get to the new heaven and new earth…somehow no one will rebel this time.
Maybe this is the source of “third time’s a charm”?