Never. Good that happens is because of a miracle from god. Bad things? “Free will” or Satan. That’s why christians had to invent a devil. To absolve god from the bad that happens in the world.
Actually he is. If you don’t accept him, you’ll be punished by being sent to hell.
Hell is separation from God–i.e., the heaven for those who do not accept God.
**[quote=“ImRightYoureWrong, post:79, topic:129116, full:true”]
Oh so we dont have accept him in heaven?
[/quote]
You accept him on Earth or not at all.
He didn’t ask you. You are here. Would you prefer not to be?
ImRightYoureWrong:That’s the lie Satan has been pushing since Eden- no price…
I guess its never Gods fault
Never. Good that happens is because of a miracle from god. Bad things? “Free will” or Satan. That’s why christians had to invent a devil. To absolve god from the bad that happens in the world.
No, we pretty much bring the bad things on ourselves.
I’ve made no secret of my being a fundamentalist in my years here in the forum… I’m pretty sure it’s known.
It may well be. I oftentimes don’t keep track of screen names. Only those who say really egregious things - like Gnostic Bishop - stay in my memory.
So, you believe Saul and David existed? More importantly, do you believe that there are no mistakes in the Bible? No inconsistencies?
No, we pretty much bring the bad things on ourselves.
See, that’s an egregious thing to say.
The nuns raped by priests. The choirboys raped by priests. They brought that on themselves? Or their parents or grandparents sinned against God, and so God punished everyone unto the third generation for the sins of the grandparents?
He’s guilty of not being a tyrant and forcing everyone to accept him as he is.
God isn’t a tyrant? But he’ll send to hell everyrone who won’t - or can’t - accept him as he is.
That’s the definition of a tyrant.
OK, so “free will” as I stated in my post. So what percentage of the good things that happen are due to god and what percentage are also “free will?”
He’s guilty of not being a tyrant and forcing everyone to accept him as he is.
God isn’t a tyrant? But he’ll send to hell everyrone who won’t - or can’t - accept him as he is.
That’s the definition of a tyrant.
Don’t forget the Egyptian plagues or god killing everyone on earth in the Noah myth.
Don’t forget the Egyptian plagues or god killing everyone on earth in the Noah myth.
Yes. I’ve been reading the Old Testament. Got as far as Samuel 2 last night.
God deliberately hardening Pharoah’s heart 9 times so he could continue to demonstrate his power to the Jews…never mind all the innocent Egyptians that died because of it.
Then of course there was the ‘spoiiling’ of the Eguptians. Not enough that God had sent all these plagues to make the Egypitans suffer but then he encourages the Israelis to rob them as well…
The Flood has never made any sense…God repents that he’s made man, who has been sin-natured since the Fall, and so he kills everyone on the planet… but then decides to let Noah’s family live so sin stays in the world…there’s no logic there.
There are other instances where God doesn’t give a person free will but rather ‘hardens their heart’ so they do evil so they can be killed…
I’m reading these things and, as a literalist, thinking…what the heck? This is a loving God?
You accept him on Earth or not at all.
What if you change your mind in Heaven/New Earth?
armycowboy:Don’t forget the Egyptian plagues or god killing everyone on earth in the Noah myth.
Yes. I’ve been reading the Old Testament. Got as far as Samuel 2 last night.
God deliberately hardening Pharoah’s heart 9 times so he could continue to demonstrate his power to the Jews…never mind all the innocent Egyptians that died because of it.
Then of course there was the ‘spoiiling’ of the Eguptians. Not enough that God had sent all these plagues to make the Egypitans suffer but then he encourages the Israelis to rob them as well…
The Flood has never made any sense…God repents that he’s made man, who has been sin-natured since the Fall, and so he kills everyone on the planet… but then decides to let Noah’s family live so sin stays in the world…there’s no logic there.
There are other instances where God doesn’t give a person free will but rather ‘hardens their heart’ so they do evil so they can be killed…
I’m reading these things and, as a literalist, thinking…what the heck? This is a loving God?
Again, it’s difficult to discuss Christianity and God with someone who isn’t. Reading the Bible is not the same as understanding the Bible.
God did not cause pharaohs heart to harden. Take a lump of clay in one hand and a lump of butter in the other. Take them outside on a hot summer day and lay them side by side on the asphalt. What happens to each? The butter melts but the clay hardens. How is this possible when it’s the same sun acting on both? Is it the sun or the nature of the substance being exposed to it?
AlexMcAlpine: armycowboy:Don’t forget the Egyptian plagues or god killing everyone on earth in the Noah myth.
Yes. I’ve been reading the Old Testament. Got as far as Samuel 2 last night.
God deliberately hardening Pharoah’s heart 9 times so he could continue to demonstrate his power to the Jews…never mind all the innocent Egyptians that died because of it.
Then of course there was the ‘spoiiling’ of the Eguptians. Not enough that God had sent all these plagues to make the Egypitans suffer but then he encourages the Israelis to rob them as well…
The Flood has never made any sense…God repents that he’s made man, who has been sin-natured since the Fall, and so he kills everyone on the planet… but then decides to let Noah’s family live so sin stays in the world…there’s no logic there.
There are other instances where God doesn’t give a person free will but rather ‘hardens their heart’ so they do evil so they can be killed…
I’m reading these things and, as a literalist, thinking…what the heck? This is a loving God?
Again, it’s difficult to discuss Christianity and God with someone who isn’t. Reading the Bible is not the same as understanding the Bible.
God did not cause pharaohs heart to harden. Take a lump of clay in one hand and a lump of butter in the other. Take them outside on a hot summer day and lay them side by side on the asphalt. What happens to each? The butter melts but the clay hardens. How is this possible when it’s the same sun acting on both? Is it the sun or the nature of the substance being exposed to it?
Perhaps you could quote the Bible verse that you are basing this analogy on?
Exodus 7:3 King James Version (KJV)
3 And I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.
No, we pretty much bring the bad things on ourselves.
Leukemia? Earthquakes?
adroit:Plot twist—we’re still going to be in the flesh in “Heaven”, seeing how it’s actually going to be the New Earth. So, super duper new flesh is going to be stronger than our current version, I guess? Would have been nice to just skip the prototype.
Except…
Genesis explains that humans wanted to know both good and evil. I understand it is not possible to experience evil in heaven.
It’s not?
Then how did Satan and his angels rebel?
God isn’t a tyrant? But he’ll send to hell everyrone who won’t - or can’t - accept him as he is.
That’s the definition of a tyrant.
Its like someone holding a gun to your head saying “bow to me.” If you dont you get shot. But you were given a choice, the shooter was so nice.
It’s not?
Then how did Satan and his angels rebel?
Nothing makes sense. Explain one thing contradict another. Endless tail chasing.
JayJay:It’s not?
Then how did Satan and his angels rebel?
Nothing makes sense. Explain one thing contradict another. Endless tail chasing.
The interesting thing I always found about the Bible story.
*Paradise with the angels in heaven…Satan rebels.
*Paradise on Earth in the Garden of Eden…humans rebel.
Yet when we get to the new heaven and new earth…somehow no one will rebel this time.
Maybe this is the source of “third time’s a charm”?