How Socialized Medicine Actually Works:

GrandWazoo · 2020-10-14T04:12:30.029Z

So Fox News dropped Steve Crowder like a hot potato after he made bad remarks about our Host Sean.
I would therefore question the wisdom of posting one of his videos on these boards.
But that’s just me.

Ceasar · 2020-10-14T04:14:28.351Z

GrandWazoo:

So Fox News dropped Steve Crowder like a hot potato after he made bad remarks about our Host Sean.
I would therefore question the wisdom of posting one of his videos on these boards.
But that’s just me.

I wasn’t aware of that. However, like I said, if it’s THE TRUTH shown in the video, it’s THE TRUTH. The messenger is irrelevant.

GrandWazoo · 2020-10-14T04:24:05.773Z

Ceasar:

I wasn’t aware of that. However, like I said, if it’s THE TRUTH shown in the video, it’s THE TRUTH. The messenger is irrelevant.

How do you know? Why don’t you ask a real person from Canada if they are happy instead of believing a video that to me looks like a manipulated message. And from a questionable source.

markdido · 2020-10-14T05:06:40.966Z

GrandWazoo:

Ceasar:

I wasn’t aware of that. However, like I said, if it’s THE TRUTH shown in the video, it’s THE TRUTH. The messenger is irrelevant.

How do you know? Why don’t you ask a real person from Canada if they are happy instead of believing a video that to me looks like a manipulated message. And from a questionable source.

They can’t be that happy

torontosun

More Canadians leaving country for health care: Report

The flight of the sick continues to rise in Canada.

A policy brief — titled Flight of the Sick, by the Calgary-based think tank secondstreet.org — says 217,500 Canadians left the country for health care in 2017, according to Statistics Canada. If those travelling with the patients are included in the count, the total rises to 369,700 people.

fallenturtle · 2020-10-14T06:15:53.232Z

Ceasar:

When I was young you could bring a rifle to school in a gun rack & park in the school parking lot. Teachers took us on field trips to learn to live like the pioneers in a state or national park & brought guns for us all to learn to shoot & had a gun safety course.

Did you go to school in a rural or urban area?

Ceasar:

You could voice any opinion & wouldn’t lose your job over it. You might get a lot of people tell you off or avoid your company, but freedom of speech was very respected. The first good job I got you was expected to keep your word & be honest. You might get fired for one of those.

I never heard of anyone getting fired for their opinion. There was a huge movement on university campus’s for free speech, & that meant all speech, including offensive speech.

What kind of opinions are we talking about here? Should there be laws to protect you from getting fired for voicing opinions?

Ceasar:

There was much more economic freedom. Much less government intrusion into your life. Your property was YOUR property, & much less subject to some bureaucrat telling you what you are ALLOWED to do with it. That’s just a very few of them.

There’s a lot of little things but they add up - death by a thousand cuts. If you wasn’t alive back then & saw all the changes it’s hard to even explain to you.

Everything wasn’t perfect back then, no era is, but witnessing to slow degradation of rights & freedoms going away a little at a time knowing if it doesn’t stop eventually all of them will be gone.

Do you think comparing back then to now that women and minorities have more or less freedoms?

Ceasar:

We can’t give up our freedoms! It’s a rare commodity & if we lose them we likely won’t ever get them back. Witnessing the horrific things done behind the Iron Curtain & all over Africa & South America by the socialists makes us keenly aware of the socialist movement here & where it will lead us. We just cannot do it!

Not all socialists are the same. You’re mostly talking about Marxist-Leninist who are a minority of the socialists here in the USA.

Ceasar:

The same blowhard promises used to impose the misery in all those places back then is the same we are hearing now. It’s empty promises & plays on the basest emotions of mankind - Envy of the wealthy & wanting to take their property, class warfare, the desire to punish the non compliant for refusal to obey every little flavor of the week invented rule, political correctness, or triggered offence from those who really just want to control freak every aspect of your life & tell you what to do, when to do it, how to do it, & where to do it. That has been used by every tyrant since Stalin & Mao.

How can the promises be the same? The Marxist-Leninist were all about revolutions and forming new governments and communism. The Democratic Socialists here in the USA aren’t promising communism as they aren’t communists… and they push gradual change within the current system, not revolutions that topple the government and put authoritarian despots in their place.

Optrader · 2020-10-14T10:07:02.447Z

DisturbedGuy:

markdido:

DisturbedGuy:

fallenturtle:

You should never take anything Crowder says seriously. He’s biased and bigoted.

thread killer.

Only for the intellectually lazy

You keep paying 33% to insurance companies that add ZERO benefit to your healthcare. I want something better.

Hey, you can get your hysterectomy covered under Obamacare, what more do you want?

Jezcoe · 2020-10-14T11:45:11.920Z

Ceasar:

Jezcoe:

Ceasar:

Jezcoe:

Ceasar:

let it be privately run & just funded by government.

You just described Single Payer Health Care

No. I just described government run healthcare, I didn’t say for everyone, I was referring only to the poor.

Why only the poor?

Why not everyone?

Have the government pay private companies to administer health care. Works for the poor and the elderly… why stop there? Socialism is good enough for them.

I think we as a country should avoid government run anything except a few things i already mentioned. I do think we should help the poor, infirmed, & elderly if they need it. Everyone else need to take care of themselves, pay for their own insurance. Wealthy elderly, & infirmed need to pay for their own as well.

Government should make limited regulations on insurance companies & let people negotiate their best deal with them. I’m opposed to public schools, & hospitals as well. Roads can be built by contractors & paid for with tax dollars.

When government fixes roads it often costs more. Tax dollars should be spent with good stewardship & not for political advantage. I know a little what I’m talking about on this subject as I hold public office in charge as a township trustee.

We use private contractors a lot. Take bids & be as frugal with monies NOT our own & NOT ours to spendthrift or buy votes.

Government can fud things it’s responsible for, oversee it, (Stewardship) & regulate it as needed on a LIMITED basis. Less is more. Government doesn’t need to be all powerful. It needs to be subservient to the people, not the other way around.

So backing off on the Single payer position held earlier in this thread.

Cool

SpacemanSpiff · 2020-10-14T11:54:40.459Z

I don’t know the intricate details of the Canadian heath care system. What i do know is that they sure as hell ain’t clamoring to move to a system like ours.

markdido · 2020-10-14T15:16:19.191Z

SpacemanSpiff:

I don’t know the intricate details of the Canadian heath care system. What i do know is that they sure as hell ain’t clamoring to move to a system like ours.

And yet, Canadians still come to the US for treatment. Why do you think that is?

torontosun

More Canadians leaving country for health care: Report

The flight of the sick continues to rise in Canada.

Ceasar · 2020-10-14T16:24:37.014Z

SpacemanSpiff:

I don’t know the intricate details of the Canadian heath care system. What i do know is that they sure as hell ain’t clamoring to move to a system like ours.

Yeah, they like those year long waits to get needed surgery…

Ceasar · 2020-10-15T10:53:34.464Z

Continuing the discussion from How Socialized Medicine Actually Works::

fallenturtle:

Ceasar:

When I was young you could bring a rifle to school in a gun rack & park in the school parking lot. Teachers took us on field trips to learn to live like the pioneers in a state or national park & brought guns for us all to learn to shoot & had a gun safety course.

Did you go to school in a rural or urban area?

Ceasar:

You could voice any opinion & wouldn’t lose your job over it. You might get a lot of people tell you off or avoid your company, but freedom of speech was very respected. The first good job I got you was expected to keep your word & be honest. You might get fired for one of those.

I never heard of anyone getting fired for their opinion. There was a huge movement on university campus’s for free speech, & that meant all speech, including offensive speech.

What kind of opinions are we talking about here? Should there be laws to protect you from getting fired for voicing opinions?

Ceasar:

There was much more economic freedom. Much less government intrusion into your life. Your property was YOUR property, & much less subject to some bureaucrat telling you what you are ALLOWED to do with it. That’s just a very few of them.

There’s a lot of little things but they add up - death by a thousand cuts. If you wasn’t alive back then & saw all the changes it’s hard to even explain to you.

Everything wasn’t perfect back then, no era is, but witnessing to slow degradation of rights & freedoms going away a little at a time knowing if it doesn’t stop eventually all of them will be gone.

Do you think comparing back then to now that women and minorities have more or less freedoms?

Ceasar:

We can’t give up our freedoms! It’s a rare commodity & if we lose them we likely won’t ever get them back. Witnessing the horrific things done behind the Iron Curtain & all over Africa & South America by the socialists makes us keenly aware of the socialist movement here & where it will lead us. We just cannot do it!

Not all socialists are the same. You’re mostly talking about Marxist-Leninist who are a minority of the socialists here in the USA.

Ceasar:

The same blowhard promises used to impose the misery in all those places back then is the same we are hearing now. It’s empty promises & plays on the basest emotions of mankind - Envy of the wealthy & wanting to take their property, class warfare, the desire to punish the non compliant for refusal to obey every little flavor of the week invented rule, political correctness, or triggered offence from those who really just want to control freak every aspect of your life & tell you what to do, when to do it, how to do it, & where to do it. That has been used by every tyrant since Stalin & Mao.

How can the promises be the same? The Marxist-Leninist were all about revolutions and forming new governments and communism. The Democratic Socialists here in the USA aren’t promising communism as they aren’t communists… and they push gradual change within the current system, not revolutions that topple the government and put authoritarian despots in their place.

Baloney. The “Democratic socialists” HERE will IMPOSE totalitarian Marxism, I witnessed a gathering of many of them, in a large auditorium & they was calling each other “Comrade”, & talking as though throughout the forum that Marxism is the norm, using all the old Marxist terminology. They was immersed in Marxist dogma to the point of absurdity.

The left will quickly take us to Venezuela, poverty, killings, & all. They are in our streets rioting, killing, looting, & burning, but hey, they are going to magically turn into peace loving & kind, & benevolent the instant they gain complete power over us all, huh?

They WILL have their way, by force, by any means necessary, just like their signs, slogan’s & actions show & cannot be trusted with power. They will kill or imprison all opponents, they already get people fired for having a conservative opinion, some even on the left who DARE to have ONE differing opinion than their radical ones.

They prove themselves to be dangerous, radical, & willing to do violence to get their way. They wave communist flags, hold up the Marxist clenched fist & posters of it, a Marxist symbol, go into restaurants & public places FORCING people to hold up their clinched fist. They intimidate, ostracize, censor, & destroy all opposition. Dissent not allowed.

A movement that starts out that way continues that way, & indeed escalates all those, especially the violence. They get in power if there’s not a civil war to stop them, they will just completely take over.

They want POWER, & they want not to govern by consent, they seek to RULE & lord it over us all. If they take over, what makes you think they will instantly become peaceful when they have been all but that?

fallenturtle · 2020-10-15T16:04:53.946Z

Ceasar:

Baloney. The “Democratic socialists” HERE will IMPOSE totalitarian Marxism, I witnessed a gathering of many of them, in a large auditorium & they was calling each other “Comrade”, & talking as though throughout the forum that Marxism is the norm, using all the old Marxist terminology. They was immersed in Marxist dogma to the point of absurdity.

Baloney unless “here” refers to the Democratic socialists in your head. Yes, socialists use Marxist terminology as his writings have been influential to socialists but just because you use refer to Marxist terminology doesn’t make you Marxist or a Communist. The idea that “democratic socialists” will impose “totalitarian Marxism” is contradictory.

Ceasar:

The left will quickly take us to Venezuela, poverty, killings, & all.

No, they won’t. Just like they haven’t the last time they were in power and you all clutched your pearls over the same fears.

Ceasar:

They are in our streets rioting, killing, looting, & burning, but hey, they are going to magically turn into peace loving & kind, & benevolent the instant they gain complete power over us all, huh?

The people in the streets rioting, killing, looting, and burning aren’t the people running for office, so they won’t gain control over you.

Ceasar:

They WILL have their way, by force, by any means necessary, just like their signs, slogan’s & actions show & cannot be trusted with power. They will kill or imprison all opponents, they already get people fired for having a conservative opinion, some even on the left who DARE to have ONE differing opinion than their radical ones.

Baloney.

Ceasar:

They prove themselves to be dangerous, radical, & willing to do violence to get their way. They wave communist flags, hold up the Marxist clenched fist & posters of it, a Marxist symbol…

The clenched fist is just a generic symbol of solidarity and support, its not tied exclusively to Marxism.

Ceasar:

…go into restaurants & public places FORCING people to hold up their clinched fist. They intimidate, ostracize, censor, & destroy all opposition. Dissent not allowed.

Yes, some people did that. They don’t represent all socialists much less all the left.

Ceasar:

A movement that starts out that way continues that way, & indeed escalates all those, especially the violence. They get in power if there’s not a civil war to stop them, they will just completely take over.

Yet there have been riots throughout US history and they eventually ended and haven’t led to this totalitarian state you thing they want to impose.

Ceasar:

They want POWER, & they want not to govern by consent, they seek to RULE & lord it over us all. If they take over, what makes you think they will instantly become peaceful when they have been all but that?

You’re creating a strawman. You are taking various groups and ideologies, using stereotypes for other groups and ideologies, and then declaring them all part of the homogeneous left.

Do you know what Democratic socialists want? It’s in the name: democratic socialism. Not totalarian socialism and not Communism. In addition the DNC voted in favor of Biden over Sanders showing the majority don’t want Democatic socialism, they want to stick with liberal/progressivism.

peek-a-boo · 2020-10-15T22:15:43.096Z

The supplemental private insurance makes Medicare palatable. Also Medicare recipients still see private doctors and go to private health care clinics and hospitals.

Medicare is not socialized medicine, ala Canada, by any stretch of the imagination.

In regards to the OP, I’ve read many horror stories about the long waits and rationing of health care from many different countries with socialized medicine. LIBs simply dismiss them as aberrations and much to do about nothing. That’s just who they are.

Jezcoe · 2020-10-15T22:25:06.956Z

peek-a-boo:

Medicare is not socialized medicine

Cool… then Medicare for all sounds good.

EternalVigilance · 2020-10-15T22:52:15.812Z

fallenturtle:

The Democratic Socialists here in the USA aren’t promising communism as they aren’t communists…

The Godfather of Democratic Socialism has romanticized leftist despotic governments his entire life. You can still find clips on YouTube of him insisting that nobody “needs to make a profit,” so it’s not much of a stretch to believe that an entire movement based on lies would be perfectly content with the $25 per month salary that the average Cuban makes - just so long as they’re in charge.

CNN – 25 Feb 20

Bernie Sanders has praised aspects of leftist regimes for decades | CNN Politics

Bernie Sanders has come under attack from Democrats and Republicans this past week over his praise for social programs implemented by the late Cuban dictator Fidel Castro, a sign of the increasing scrutiny the Vermont senator faces as he has ascended...

Fox News

Bernie Sanders once said Mao-era China had democracy ‘on the local level’

Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders once defended Mao-era China by claiming it had democracy “on the local level,” as he argued the U.S. should provide aid to the country while cutting off other non-democratic nations.

gooddad409 · 2020-10-15T23:02:59.942Z

Ceasar:

DisturbedGuy:

markdido:

DisturbedGuy:

markdido:

DisturbedGuy:

fallenturtle:

You should never take anything Crowder says seriously. He’s biased and bigoted.

thread killer.

Only for the intellectually lazy

You keep paying 33% to insurance companies that add ZERO benefit to your healthcare. I want something better.

Move to Cuba.

Michael Moore says they have the best healthcare in the world!

How about we fix the one here instead of pretending it’s GREAT!

Obamacare didn’t fix anything, just ran up costs times 4.

Yep. Except for those subsidized by us taxpayers.

Ceasar · 2020-10-17T02:35:46.131Z

The left is totalitarian, always has been. Now it’s coming to full fruition. Be careful what you wish for…

fallenturtle · 2020-10-17T06:29:58.730Z

Ceasar:

The left is totalitarian, always has been. Now it’s coming to full fruition. Be careful what you wish for…

Absurd… the left is not totalitarian. Next you’ll tell me the right is anarchists.

FloridaYankee · 2020-10-17T06:54:48.553Z

markdido:

GrandWazoo:

Ceasar:

I wasn’t aware of that. However, like I said, if it’s THE TRUTH shown in the video, it’s THE TRUTH. The messenger is irrelevant.

How do you know? Why don’t you ask a real person from Canada if they are happy instead of believing a video that to me looks like a manipulated message. And from a questionable source.

They can’t be that happy

More Canadians leaving country for health care: Report | Toronto Sun

The flight of the sick continues to rise in Canada.

A policy brief — titled Flight of the Sick, by the Calgary-based think tank secondstreet.org — says 217,500 Canadians left the country for health care in 2017, according to Statistics Canada. If those travelling with the patients are included in the count, the total rises to 369,700 people.

There is no readily available data on Canadians leaving the country for medical care

AND

The article you posted states that; The federal agency wasn’t able to provide a breakdown of patients seeking medically-necessary procedures and those leaving Canada for cosmetic surgery.

Coming to the states for a boob job or a nip and a tuck hardly qualifies as leaving Canada for healthcare.

Happyhappyjoyjoy · 2020-10-17T07:06:35.616Z

Here’s my experience of socialised medicine.

My grandfather collapsed when out shopping when he was 86. An ambulance came and picked him up and took him to the hospital, where it was disovered he had a slow heart rhythm.

He stayed over night, had a pacemaker fitted the next morning and was home in time for his tea at 5pm.

Cost to him - nothing.

I guess the death panel must have been in a benevolent mood that day.

There was also the time I broke my arm and had pins inserted in an operation the next day.

Oh, and the world class care my wife had when my son was born.

All provided by the NHS, free at the point of delivery.

The Health Foundation

Public attitudes to the NHS

Analysis of the results of questions about the NHS from the 2014 British Social Attitudes Survey.

There is overwhelming support for the principle of a publicly funded health service in the UK.