How NATO went from championing free speech to destroying it

[e7alr]

@Imel

We are a neutral country so no-one defends us.
Do you not think there are people in every EU country, saying what has Ukraine to do with us also?
I know it will affect us but a lot of people don’t see it that way.

You set in the protective footprint of a nuclear power and the nuclear armed NATO alliance. If you think NATO would stand by and let a hostile power occupy your territory to threaten NATO forces?

[Bill.in.PA]

Yes, that is the official narrative. History did not begin on February 24, 2022.

NATO ceased to be a defensive alliance after the end of the Cold War. Ask the people in Belgrade, Baghdad, Kabul, or Tripoli about what NATO does to countries on its enemies list.

What would Ireland look like today if the US had given a blank check to the most extreme elements of the IRA in the 1970s? That is basically what the US and its NATO allies have done in Ukraine for more than a decade. Violent Ukrainian nationalist paramilitaries have been getting huge amounts of funding and arms. More than 10,000 Ukrainians died in the civil war between the 2014 US-backed coup and the Russian invasion.

The EU is moving to censor and criminalize any speech that debunks current official narratives from Washington and Brussels. At this point quoting a Ronald Reagan speech about European security could result in censorship and possible arrest.

[Imel]

Too small to do anything about it ourselves our fate is in the hands of Nato even though we are not a member. See how it entwines us.

[e7alr]

Thus your government is free to spend on anything but defense.

[Imel]

Given our size it would be a pointless exercise.
We are about the size of Maine!

[Samm]

@Imel

Wait even with the combined funding by EU, the US and other countries around the world, in 2 years that still couldn’t defeat Russia.
But it should be possible for Europe to do so alone.
So you didn’t save Europe of anything, like you maintain and are backing out at a crucial time.

The short answer is yes. Compare the combined economy of the EU vs. that of Russia.

[Samm]

@Imel

I know have you seen the size of us, we are a neutral country, probably because of our historical relationship with the UK and not wanting to fight for the British army.
I an offering an opinion from a European perspective, which we are a part of and the outcome of this war will affect us all, one way or another.

What does the rest of Europe have to say about Ireland’s refusal to play with them?

[Samm]

@Imel

We are a neutral country so no-one defends us.
Do you not think there are people in every EU country, saying what has Ukraine to do with us also?
I know it will affect us but a lot of people don’t see it that way.

Don’t be naive. You are protected by both the US (and Canada) and the EU countries whether you want to admit it or not. Neutrality only applies during times of war.

[Samm]

@Imel

Russia is winning because one of Natos member countries doesn’t want to pay anymore.
When you refer to Nato the US is included in that and any criticism thereof.

Sounds like you bought Zellenskyy’s appeal to Congress lock stock and barrel.

[e7alr]

How convenient… A nation unwilling to contribute to maintaining its sovereignty probably doesn’t deserve it.

[conan]

@Imel

I an offering an opinion from a European perspective,

So you’re saying most Europeans think like yourself, and they believe American is obligated to defend them.

Is that what you’re saying?

[conan]

@Imel

Russia is winning because one of Natos member countries doesn’t want to pay anymore.

You can take that massive trade surplus that Ireland has with America and buy American weapons for Ukraine.

[Imel]

Yes you’re probably right, hundreds of years fighting for independence from England and decades after fighting a civil war over 6 counties declared British.
Maybe we don’t deserve it after all.
Sorry not all of Europe thinks the same.
Our stance has more to do with the UK than Europe.
It’s complicated.

[Imel]

Are you saying most Americans think like you and want to back out of your own alliance.
If you’re pro Russia or Putin or can’t be bothered stick your money where the sun don’t shine anyway (no offence).

[FreeAndClear]

@e7alr

citizen of a pacifist nation

I don’t think in the entire history of Ireland anyone has ever called them a pacifist nation

[FreeAndClear]

@Samm

@Imel

We are a neutral country so no-one defends us.
Do you not think there are people in every EU country, saying what has Ukraine to do with us also?
I know it will affect us but a lot of people don’t see it that way.

Don’t be naive. You are protected by both the US (and Canada) and the EU countries whether you want to admit it or not. Neutrality only applies during times of war.

Well said.

[Imel]

Oh really well said is it? Then what’s the holdup on the aid the US provides for our safety.
Point is no we’re not protected and cannot rely on traditional allies.

[Imel]

To be sure! But I don’t expect people to know jack about our little outpost.

[FreeAndClear]

@Imel

To be sure! But I don’t expect people to know jack about our little outpost.

One of my favorite robin williams jokes is that the Irish discovered the world, had a couple of Guinness and forgot where they put it.

[FreeAndClear]

@Imel

Oh really well said is it? Then what’s the holdup on the aid the US provides for our safety.
Point is no we’re not protected and cannot rely on traditional allies.

You are not under attack. Ukraine is under attack.