Of course coming here and putting one’s child into the American welfare system is a no brainer. What poor migrant from Central or South America wouldn’t want the American middle class to pay for their kids schooling, healthcare, food, housing, etc? My main point is that is not a good deal for America’s middle class.
Now I do agree with you that much of the poverty from native born Americans is generational. As someone who worked in public schools and know many teachers who worked in inner city schools, and knows people who are landlords, it’s not uncommon for inter-generational welfare use. Regarding the success of the people from Central and South America since this surge of immigration is still relatively young - largely talking about the past 10/20 years. What kind of data is there on how their children are doing?
I’m not at all opposing high-skilled/educated immigration, which is why I reworded it “Merit/Needs” based. For example in certain fields of the sciences there are not enough Americans majoring in those sciences and so in those cases immigration from abroad has been needed. More specifically you seem to be arguing that the immigration from Central and South America is overall better than immigration from other countries:
“I have some direct experience with merit-based immigrants, too. Their effect is no different than illegal immigrant labor at the bottom of the pay-scale.”
So in this regard I was challenging you to show me the stats that would support that. I mentioned India and Asia because we also get many immigrants from those countries as well.
First of all I believe the preponderance of statistics over the anecdotal evidence of anyone. Secondly my statement there only pertains to the people I’ve met on a limited personal level and has nothing to say about their finances, which is the thrust of my thread. Also my experience in teaching was almost exclusively in an upper-middle class/middle-class town. Nothing at all like the situation in LA, which is the focus of my thread. I’ll close with this following article which supports the evidence of the welfare state:
You make some good points here. Back in the day especially if your family owned a farm the children when old enough would start working on the farm and when they would reach teenage years would do it full time. Obviously we don’t have no where near as many farming families today as we used to and the only other business I can think of would be a family that owns a restaurant. There is a Chinese restaurant that I go to on occasion and they have two sons, probably about 8 & 10 who work in the restaurant when not in school.
The cost of raising a child has also gone up exponentially over the past 30 years. I’ve often say that we will get to the point where the only people who will be able to afford raising a child are the wealthy and the welfare.
“The latest Census Bureau numbers find that more than seven of 10 households headed by immigrants in California, and nearly the same amount in Texas, are on the taxpayer dole.”
Second political bias doesn’t mean ones facts are false. Third I said the preponderance of the statistics, not just one opinion piece, which in the begining of my thread I cite statistics about LA schools. Also I absolutely recognize that statistics in the realm of the social sciences do have statistical error associated with them, i.e. Hillary was supposed to win easily. Well we know how that worked out. Anyhow here is another article supporting the Census data findings from the Washington Times piece:
My position on immigration is very simple, I oppose any law or policy that negatively impacts any American citizen, period. Whether it is high skilled workers or otherwise. So if yourself or anyone else makes that case I support reforming those laws or policies.
But on the other hand I absolutely recognize that we need immigration and support laws and policies that benefit the economic needs of our country.
That seems quite rigid. What if the immigration policy brought median income up, but hurt a very small portion of the citizenry? I.e. Overall prosperity is higher, but a few are hurt. Would you agree to such policy?
Immigration has become such a partisan issue that both sides simply dismiss the others sources, regardless of the validity.
My question is when did it become such a partisan issue? Bill Clinton talked of border security even Obama while campaigning and in his first term openly spoke about border security as well as integration issues. I suggest this article by the Atlantic which is hardly a right wing source. The article is written by a well respected liberal.
So the legalized immigrants are the working class, or part of the working class?
And since the democrats have abandoned these voters do they expect any backlash at the national level in upcoming presidential elections? One of the ways the democrats dominated the rust belt was their message the party of the working class and labor unions.
Regardless of how diverse and how many immigrants live in certain states the rust belt hasn’t changed in the way California and other states that has seen a major increase in immigrantion has. There is not a lot of immigrants rushing to move to Michigan, Wisconsin, and Ohio.
To be fair, I don’t think many native born Americans are rushing to Michigan or Wisconsin either. The only thing I know about Ohio is that coming from the southern border, if you don’t stop you’ll end up in Michigan or the lake.
Your correct these areas have been hollowed out (Wisconsin not as much) by the decline in manufacturing. Pennsylvania is a mixed bag, Pittsburgh itself has done a decent job turning things around attracting different industries.
My neighborhood in Chicago was completely destroyed by illegals! You start with a safe, beautiful, clean and close neighborhood, you end up with 52 shootings in one week due to gang violence. You can’t talk to your new neighbors, they don’t speak English. You go from pretty and clean to broken beer and whiskey bottles along with food, wrappers and even dirty Pampers all over your streets and sidewalks. Not to mention puddles of blood as you walk to church on Sunday after their drunken brawls on Saturday night. Eventually you find some who speak English, you become friends but even that turns out bad because they start telling you about their “Network” that got them here, provided them with their phony SS cards (yes, card’s, plural) and taught them how to milk the system by collecting every penny they can at taxpayers expense. They tell you the “secret” of targeting and taking over one neighborhood at a time by going to monthly meetings and working with the Network in order to do this. There is no way to describe this and make people understand if you haven’t lived it. Your husband has congestive heart failure and waits a full two years to go on SS disability, her husband gets beat in a bar fight and collects right away with all medical free. Your child plays outside but can’t anymore because the kid next door is in a gang and runs home to safety because another gang in a car is shooting at him while your 7 year old is playing in his path of escape. It just goes on and on. Have you ever had a bullet whiz by your head? I have. Ever seen a dead kid laying on the sidewalk after getting beat to death with a baseball bat? I have. This is just part of it. You are putting back your groceries, they whip out their card. We finally sold our home and moved, now they are coming for this neighborhood too. The first clue they are arriving? Spring thaw, broken whiskey bottles everywhere. Next spring you find more and more. Ooops, nobody speaks English, have to sell and move again because the bullets will be next. It’s not just about the schools, even though your child sits bored in class while they have to teach the spanish speaking children, they also form cliques and the white children aren’t included, since most of the school has been taken over, your child starts to feel left out. It’s just what happens.
