We have taken a half-ass approach to border security and immigration enforcement for the past 30 years, and that is on both sides. Regarding making illegal immigration a Capital Offense, I found that an odd thing to even bring up since nobody would advocate for that. Nonetheless that is not the focus of this thread.
A very good article, fair, well thought out and thorough (and I haven’t read it all yet). This was a point I found very interesting:
“Under present immigration policies, the U.S. population will exceed 400 million by 2050. Nobody is seriously planning for such population growth—building the schools and hospitals these people will need, planning for the traffic they will generate. Nobody is thinking very hard about the environmental consequences, either. The average American causes the emission of almost 17 tons of carbon dioxide each year, quadruple the annual emissions of the average Mexican and 45 times the emissions of the average Bangladeshi.”
There is a sense that we can just keep growing and growing our population here and there will be no negative consequences to that. Not only economically but environmentally as well.
How common is that phenomenon in say the past 10 years with all immigrants? This was another point brought up by that article from Hexenbiest:
"…while the impact of immigration on what the typical American earns is quite small, its impact on government finances is big. Estimates from the National Academy of Sciences suggest that on average, each immigrant costs his or her state and local governments $1,600 more a year in expenditures than he or she contributes in revenues. In especially generous states, the cost is much higher still: $2,050 in California; $3,650 in Wisconsin; $5,100 in Minnesota.
**** Immigrants are expensive to taxpayers because the foreign-born population of the United States is more likely to be poor and stay poor. Even when immigrants themselves do not qualify for a government benefit—typically because they are in the country illegally—their low income ensures that their children do. About half of immigrant-headed households receive some form of social assistance in any given year."
This is all pie-in-the-sky bs as far as I’m concerned. You are basically arguing (if I understand you correctly) that we have the ability to import millions of impoverished people into our country and actually benefit economically from it? It’s like you are saying our public schools are capable of churning out high percentages of high payed individuals.
An exclusively Merit-Bases Immigration system on the other hand would be a very big economic benefit, not the way we are currently doing things now.
22 million does.
Are we really even talking about “blue collar” workers? Doesn’t blue collar typically mean mechanics. plumbers, electricians, welders, etc? Much of what immigration has been about is minimum wage (or lower) workers. Many particularly illegal immigrants try to find work as house keepers, in landscaping, small construction, etc. But theses types of jobs are not necessary. For example, used to hire a housekeeper, and be more open to hiring someone to do landscaping work or fix something in our house. But with our tax burden and cost of living what it is in NJ we have basically cut all that off. In other words it is not only automation that can eliminate those types of jobs.
I’ve said this before that as a NJ resident (who has to travel into NY on occasion) I have likely met more immigrants than most (if not all) people on this forum, and my experiences are largely positive. But let’s be clear you are just giving some anecdotal accounts. I’ll quote the article again:
"… while the impact of immigration on what the typical American earns is quite small, its impact on government finances is big. Estimates from the National Academy of Sciences suggest that on average, each immigrant costs his or her state and local governments $1,600 more a year in expenditures than he or she contributes in revenues. In especially generous states, the cost is much higher still: $2,050 in California; $3,650 in Wisconsin; $5,100 in Minnesota.
***** Immigrants are expensive to taxpayers because the foreign-born population of the United States is more likely to be poor and stay poor. Even when immigrants themselves do not qualify for a government benefit—typically because they are in the country illegally— their low income ensures that their children do . About half of immigrant-headed households receive some form of social assistance in any given year."*
As a conservative I tend to think change isn’t bad but shouldn’t come so fast. I think the difference is a conservative like me would view our society as not something everyone in the world who wants to can come to, but our society and culture as something unique and fragile that we should take care of not to upset the current system. A quick travel to many countries outside the west one can see quickly that what we have isn’t the normal and we are pretty lucky, and we should do our best to protect that.
To me honestly when I talk about social cohesion I am speaking of integration - not race. I don’t care so much of ones skin color but were they come from in terms of their chances of integrating. For instance a person of color from let’s say Britain would probably have an easier time integrating into the U.S. more than a white person from Moldova. The language is the same and the laws are similar.
In my mind our society is like a life boat, but whereas the lifeboat says ‘x’ amount of people can come onto before sinking, there is no such warning on the immigration levels that would cause our country to sink. I feel like we should work on integrating the people here already before bringing in massive amounts more.
If we were truly integrated wouldn’t we live together better. Half a city wouldn’t be one color and the other side of town a different color. We would all speak the common language. I see success in integration don’t get me wrong, but I see the failures as well.
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Over population just a decade a go was a major talking point from the left. The left wants a greater social safety net and in some cases I agree with them. But at the same time a lax immigration system were the people will take out more services than they will put in, compared to the people who have already been putting their tax dollars into the system.
The German taxpayers are already feeling the pain with the amount of immigration they took in a few years ago. They are estimating (conservatively) the cost will be 80 billion Euros until 2022, with many analysts predicting it will go way past that on trying to house and integrate the people they took in from 2015.
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Illegal immigration has brought the deaths of 10’s of 1000s to Americans over the years, 1000+ Americans are murdered by drunk driving Illegals from Mexico EVERY year in just California alone, 100s more if you add the rest of the Country.
IF the Democrats REALLY cared about these people, they would change the ways they are, not to mention all their agendas that have kept the Black people down n out n aborting them by the millions, that’s why there’s only 19 million in America, and some of them aren’t really from here, they just came recently from Somalia, Jamaica, Haiti and so on and so forth. IT’S very clear that the Democrats Foreign n Domestic Polices have and will bring RUIN to this Nation. after the DOJ is done with them, they may never have another chance too, praise be to God if so.
The thing is with overpopulation is that it comes from exclusively from predominantly non-white countries and as far as I’m concerned there is a component of the “left” that views all non-white races in a sort of sacrosanct way. That is part of the reason they are silent about that issue now and the other part of the reason is that they want as many of those people here in the US. I’ll finish my post with another point from the article you posted:
"Assertions that federal tax revenue from immigrants can stabilize the finances of programs such as Medicare and Social Security overlook the truth that immigrants will get old and sick—and that in most cases, the taxes they pay over their working life will not cover the costs of their eventual claims on these programs. No matter how many millions of immigrants we absorb, they can’t help shore up these programs if they’ll need more in benefits than they can ever possibly pay in taxes. If a goal of immigration policy is to strengthen Social Security and Medicare, it would be wise to accept fewer immigrants overall, but more high-earning ones, who will pay more in taxes over their working years than they will collect in benefits in retirement. Under the present policy favoring large numbers of low-wage earners, the United States is accumulating huge future social-insurance liabilities in exchange for relatively meager tax contributions now."
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First off we have to stop using the narrative of the left because its not “immigration”, it’s ILLEGAL invasion and we are at EMERGENCY levels of hordes of illegals invading our country.
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I should have worded it as “Merit/Needs Based Immigration”, like yourself I am 1000% against bringing in immigrants to take hi-tech jobs from American workers, and am opposed to any laws that allow that. I guess this is how I would consider this in a statistical sense. Tell me what the economic/welfare statistics are from immigrants say from India and Asia (China, Korea, Japan, etc.) than say from Central and South America?
Some of the best posts I have seen in 17 years here are in this thread.
I commend you.
Tone down the hyperbole one notch and you’re right there.
Respect.
It’s not so much a function of our system but much more about the decisions made by who one’s parents are. In other words having a child when you yourself are living in poverty is not the wisest decision one can make. The success of a child is largely dependent upon who their parents are and how they are raised more than anything else. Obviously children of very wealthy parents are going to have many more advantages, but children of middle class parents are not in substantially more priviledged positions. A good example is Ben Carson. He grew up relatively poor, single mom, but his mom was amazing and pushed him to be a success. I worked in public schools and know many teachers who taught at many of the inner city schools in NJ. The parents have little to no interest or involvement in their child’s education.
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No, no, no!
There is more than one type of invasion and therefore more than one type of possible response. This is an invasion based on economics.
Don’t digress into argumentum ad absurdum.
Illegal immigration impacts the legal minorities the most in this Country when it comes to labor, Mr. Trump fixing somethings around here is why we have the lowest recorded records for minorities jobs, Illegal immigration has a DIRECT Negative effect on our country.
Then how do you explain the fact that its been declining?
Nope wrong.
In the future, brick and mortar school buildings will become obsolete.
The poor results will no longer justify the investment. Elementary schools are often exalted day-care centers. There will be specialized settings for certain subjects and of course trade school type hands on learning.
