Which gets back to my question of when was the language changed and what was the motivation?

Did they have legal status as per the dictates of that time? Also it is not a fair comparison as they were not crossing the border in the darkness of night. Nonetheless the further discussion upon the language used pertaining to requirements of the draft may be helpful in understanding my point. I’ll re-post two of my responses here:

I’ve looked this over and I am not reading into this as referring to person’s here illegally, in particularly someone who just happens to cross the border. Logically speaking the government has no idea who or where someone here illegally is. What is going to prevent them from simply walking back across the border if a draft was implemented? Furthermore what consequences will there be when after the conflict is over if they come back into the US?

Logically speaking it clearly is an absurd requirement. The notion that people crossing our border illegally are going to register with the selective service system is laughable. Jurisdiction requires the ability to enforce legal consequences. That cannot be done on people you don’t even know exist.

I’m not sure why you fixated on the draft as a test of jurisdiction. Are all women illegal?

What the government did do is offer a means to citizenship for serving, several times.

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EK, you’ve helped your own thread to be side-tracked to a minor issue.

How E-verify can help with the overall illegal alien process since over half of illegal aliens don’t come across the southern boarder.

IMHO, E-verify has the potential to have a greater impact than building walls in the middle of the desert (I don’t have an issued with walls in more urban areas) since it addresses the primary reason WHY illegals come here which is jobs and everything that flows from that.

Just a thoiught.
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.WW, PHS

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It’s not just about simply the draft but serving in the military in the result of a war. For me as a former serviceman that is the ultimate duty as a citizen of America and arguably of any other country for that matter.There is no higher call of a citizen to pledge that allegiance of a commitment to be willing to fight for your nation. As a former serviceman yourself, do you not agree? That’s why I’m fixated on it.

Regarding women, the US government absolutely has the jurisdiction to require and enforce with consequences women here legally to register for the draft and to require military service if so needed.

Illegals serve.

You realize most people who serve don’t do it for patriotic reasons and those who do get that nonsense knocked out of them as soon as the first shot is fired, right?

People say it because it’s hard to admit the truth.

That’s a demerit on my part. That’s a good point you make as many of those who are here illegally have overstayed their visas. I’m by no means arguing against it just considering some of the limitations that it may have.

Illegals are prosecuted for crimes every day, that’s not the jurisdiction that was meant in the 14th which has to do with nationality.

Yes it was.

The argument from proponents of birthright citizenship as I understand it is that people here illegally are under the complete jurisdiction of the United States. To that I believe that I’ve made my case that they are not under the complete jurisdiction as would be a legal citizen. Regarding what you are saying I agree with that. here is a synopsis I think we would both agree with:

Critics erroneously believe that anyone present in the United States has “subjected” himself “to the jurisdiction” of the United States, which would extend citizenship to the children of tourists, diplomats, and illegal aliens alike.

But that is not what that qualifying phrase means. Its original meaning refers to the political allegiance of an individual and the jurisdiction that a foreign government has over that individual.

The fact that a tourist or illegal alien is subject to our laws and our courts if they violate our laws does not place them within the political “jurisdiction” of the United States as that phrase was defined by the framers of the 14th Amendment.

This amendment’s language was derived from the 1866 Civil Rights Act, which provided that “[a]ll persons born in the United States, and not subject to any foreign power” would be considered citizens.

Sen. Lyman Trumbull, a key figure in the adoption of the 14th Amendment, said that “subject to the jurisdiction” of the U.S. included not owing allegiance to any other country.

As John Eastman, former dean of the Chapman School of Law, has said, many do not seem to understand “the distinction between partial, territorial jurisdiction, which subjects all who are present within the territory of a sovereign to the jurisdiction of that sovereign’s laws, and complete political jurisdiction, which requires allegiance to the sovereign as well.”

In the famous Slaughter-House cases of 1872, the Supreme Court stated that this qualifying phrase was intended to exclude “children of ministers, consuls, and citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the United States.” This was confirmed in 1884 in another case, Elk vs. Wilkins, when citizenship was denied to an American Indian because he “owed immediate allegiance to” his tribe and not the United States.

American Indians and their children did not become citizens until Congress passed the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924. There would have been no need to pass such legislation if the 14th Amendment extended citizenship to every person born in America, no matter what the circumstances of their birth, and no matter who their parents are.

Here’s what I will conclude about this. No matter which side one comes down on I think that we can all agree that the purpose of the 14th Amendment was NOT to entice impoverished women from neighboring countries to come here and pump out babies for the primary purpose of getting free stuff at the US taxpayers expense. I would also assume that birth tourism was NOT the intent of the 14th Amendment as well. Whatever side you come down on this the fact is that birthright citizenship serves no benefit to the US citizen and frankly is a policy that harms the US taxpayer.

Look at it this way. A US citizen is under the jurisdiction of America even when he leaves America. Is an illegal?

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Good point. If an American gets in trouble overseas we can intervene on their behalf and have done so on certain occasions as far as I can recall. Can’t imagine that we have everr done that for any one who had been here illegally.

I was looking at it from the opposite direction. We can extradite an American back to America, we have zero legal standing to extradite an illegal alien who has left the country. So it is obvious they are not under the same sort of jurisdiction a citizen is.

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Maybe we could start crawling out of the dark ages and start treating people like people and begin to use some of our wonderful technology to figure out how we can all live and work and prosper together.

It’s beyond ■■■■■■ that the quality of someones life should depend on where they happen to be born.

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If only it were that easy.

It’s ridiculous to feeeel it could happen any other way. Where, to whom, when… all factors which come in to play when determining quality of life at the starting point.

And factors beyond one’s control. Where one ends up is not beyond one’s control.

Kind of the whole point.

Quality of life doesn’t just happen, it has to be earned.

Here’s my conclusion. Today’s SCOTUS would never change our current policy of granting citizenship to children of parents here illegally no matter what personal beliefs on the original intent. Too controversial. The only alternative way of looking at this would be hypothetical situation in which the make up and philosophy of the court had been different in Kim Wong Ark case. Had the court opted on a more broad view of the exclusions which emphasized political allegiance then we likely would not be where we’re at today.

How does one quantify “political allegiance”?

Why would the child of legal immigrants be more “politically allegiant” to the United States than the child of illegal immigrants?

The arguments of the dissenting justices in Wong Kim Ark weren’t about “political allegiance”, they were just straight-up racist against Chinese people.

We aren’t granting citizenship by policy. They are citizens.

This is not the slightest bit true.

First of all - extradition is a process done by the country the subject is currently in, not the country they are sent to. In others words, we can’t “extradite” anyone back to the United States - the other country is the one doing the extraditing. All we can do is request that they do so.

As for requesting (and receiving) the extradition of illegal immigrants back to the United States to face trial - we can and do, all the time.