How do you feel about Contract Law

[TheDoctorIsIn]

@WuWei

Did or are you going to vote?

I voted.

[WuWei]

@TheDoctorIsIn

I don’t necessarily agree with that. The raison d’être of government is order.

Which requires what? I see no contradiction, that’s pretty much what I said.

@TheDoctorIsIn

I might. I “resist” now, too.

Not resist. RESIST!

@TheDoctorIsIn

At least in many cases they literally believe the government cannot legally punish them.

legally. No legitimacy. Do you think they aren’t in prison when they go to prison?

@TheDoctorIsIn

That depends on what you mean by “exist”.

Does “freedom” exist?

to have real being whether material or spiritual

Yes.

[WuWei]

@TheDoctorIsIn

@WuWei

Did or are you going to vote?

I voted.

Then you have both accepted its authority and legitimized it by actively participating in the contract beyond the minimum obligations.

[TheDoctorIsIn]

@WuWei

Which requires what? I see no contradiction, that’s pretty much what I said.

I’m having a hard time getting my point across, and I understand that it’s my own fault - the words I am using are not making my position clear.

I accept the legitimacy and authority of the government. I do not accept that I am in any way under an obligation to the government.

Maybe that is clearer.

@WuWei

Not resist. RESIST!

Well, what’s the difference?

Is resistance (or RESISTANCE) defined by not following the laws I don’t agree with, or shooting people?

@WuWei

legally. No legitimacy. Do you think they aren’t in prison when they go to prison?

I think that many of them honestly believe that they won’t end up going to prison, right up until the gavel bangs for the last time.

[TheDoctorIsIn]

@WuWei

Then you have both accepted its authority and legitimized it by actively participating in the contract beyond the minimum obligations.

I have already said that I believe the government is legitimate - and under further thought, I agree that I am, at least to an extent, under its authority.

[WuWei]

@TheDoctorIsIn

I accept the legitimacy and authority of the government.

@TheDoctorIsIn

I do not accept that I am in any way under an obligation to the government.

That is the obligation.

@TheDoctorIsIn

Well, what’s the difference?

Is resistance (or RESISTANCE) defined by not following the laws I don’t agree with, or shooting people?

Fighting. Shooting. Blowing ■■■■ up. Changing it.

@TheDoctorIsIn

I think that many of them honestly believe that they won’t end up going to prison, right up until the gavel bangs for the last time.

I disagree.

[WuWei]

@TheDoctorIsIn

@WuWei

Then you have both accepted its authority and legitimized it by actively participating in the contract beyond the minimum obligations.

I have already said that I believe the government is legitimate - and under further thought, I agree that I am, at least to an extent, under its authority.

Your side of the contract.

[WuWei]

In exchange for the party of the 1st part (people) allowing the party of the 2nd part (gov) to form this government and exercise authority over people, gov promises to comply with the terms set forth herein.

People promises to recognize gov’s authority and submit to rules formed by this authority, to pay taxes and not shoot gov.

[TheDoctorIsIn]

I do see what you’re saying - but I keep getting hung up on the “submit to authority” part.

Does “submitting to authority” mean recognizing the power of the authority, or does it mean something more fundemental?

There are laws that I agree with, and laws that I don’t agree with. There are laws that I generally follow, and laws that I often break.

Does submitting to authority (in terms of power) mean submitting to an authority, in terms of ethics?

[WuWei]

@TheDoctorIsIn

and laws that I often break.

You recognize you are breaking. That is what submitting to authority means in this context.

[TheDoctorIsIn]

Of course. That’s the point - I choose to break them.

Does submitting to authority mean that I have to believe that breaking the law is wrong, or just that I could be punished for it?

[WuWei]

@TheDoctorIsIn

Of course. That’s the point - I choose to break them.

And you recognize you are breaking and accept punishment.

[WuWei]

@TheDoctorIsIn

Does submitting to authority mean that I have to believe that breaking the law is wrong, or just that I could be punished for it?

What do you think?

[TheDoctorIsIn]

Well, that’s the problem I have with the terminology. It could mean either.

What do you think?

[WuWei]

Is the punishment part of the law?

[TheDoctorIsIn]

Yes, of course.

[WuWei]

Does that help?

How about it requires you recognize that you are breaking?

[WuWei]

Or you recognize the authority of gov to make laws in the first place.

[TheDoctorIsIn]

Any government has the authority to make laws, it’s inherent to the definition of a government.

[WuWei]

@TheDoctorIsIn

Any government has the authority to make laws, it’s inherent to the definition of a government.

Good point. From where does this government derive that authority?

Do all governments derive their authority from the same place?