How do you feel about Contract Law

TheDoctorIsIn · 2020-10-23T18:06:38.102Z

Ah. So you are suggesting that the Constitution is a contract between the various branches?

Or a contract between the signatories, to agree to build a government according to the rules set forth?

That’s an interesting point, but I think in the context of the OP, the analogy still falls apart.

WuWei · 2020-10-23T18:10:55.833Z

TheDoctorIsIn:

Ah. So you are suggesting that the Constitution is a contract between the various branches?

That’s an interesting point, but I think in the context of the OP, the analogy still falls apart.

It is, but not right now.

“We” agreed to the formation of a central government - based on conditions.

There are two major parts to the Constitution. Practically two constitutions.

The first forms a government. Addressing delegations of authority and is basically a contract between the branches and the central government and the states.

The second secures rights for individuals and reinforces the rights of the states.

TheDoctorIsIn · 2020-10-23T18:12:45.229Z

WuWei:

“We” agreed to the formation of a central government - based on conditions.

I don’t disagree with this post, as a whole.

But who is “we”? The signers, or us?

WuWei · 2020-10-23T18:15:59.136Z

TheDoctorIsIn:

WuWei:

“We” agreed to the formation of a central government - based on conditions.

I don’t disagree with this post, as a whole.

But who is “we”? The signers, or us?

“We…the people.” We sent the delegates. We ratified it. We agreed to be governed, under the conditions stipulated in the contract. We agreed to let them speak for us.

We are party to it.

Now if you are claiming to disavow the Social Contract as an individual… we can have a different conversation.

WuWei · 2020-10-23T18:17:49.797Z

And we demanded the second constitution as a condition to the first.

And the central government and many states are in breach of contract.

TheDoctorIsIn · 2020-10-23T18:20:34.730Z

I’m going to have to come back to this later tonight, I have some errands to run.

Good talk. You’ve made some points.

WuWei · 2020-10-23T18:22:13.358Z

See you then and looking forward to it.

@komobu are we derailing your thread or on topic?

komobu · 2020-10-23T19:17:26.031Z

WuWei:

See you then and looking forward to it.

@komobu are we derailing your thread or on topic?

Not at all…This is the type of conversation I was looking for. I think people should quit running to the federal govt for everything and run to their state govt. I also dont like the state govts violating peoples rights ie freedom to assemble.

Trump gets beat up so hard over corona, yet he did exactly what he should have. He left it to the states. The states are the one who should have handled the crisis. What state took any needs to the federal govt that was not supported? He even sent the mercy ship to New York. Cuomo sends corona positive patients to nursing homes, and then blames Trump. You cant make this stuff up!

Toll_Collector · 2020-10-23T19:37:51.072Z

komobu:

Trump gets beat up so hard over corona, yet he did exactly what he should have. He left it to the states. The states are the one who should have handled the crisis. What state took any needs to the federal govt that was not supported? He even sent the mercy ship to New York. Cuomo sends corona positive patients to nursing homes, and then blames Trump. You cant make this stuff up!

It’s easy to criticize Trump because most people are ignorant, and I’m using ignorant as a strict definition, not trying to insult. Most people view the United States as one big country, not 50 separate states. So it’s easy for people to blame the head of state.

biggestal99 · 2020-10-23T20:00:41.459Z

komobu:

Not at all…This is the type of conversation I was looking for. I think people should quit running to the federal govt for everything and run to their state govt. I also dont like the state govts violating peoples rights ie freedom to assemble.

Trump gets beat up so hard over corona, yet he did exactly what he should have. He left it to the states. The states are the one who should have handled the crisis. What state took any needs to the federal govt that was not supported? He even sent the mercy ship to New York. Cuomo sends corona positive patients to nursing homes, and then blames Trump. You cant make this stuff up!

So does that work for everything.

Natural disasters for instance.

Isn’t there times that citizens should get some assistance from the feds.

Covid is a natural disaster yet you want the feds to have nothing to do with it.

Allan

komobu · 2020-10-23T20:02:41.299Z

Toll_Collector:

It’s easy to criticize Trump because most people are ignorant, and I’m using ignorant as a strict definition, not trying to insult. Most people view the United States as one big country, not 50 separate states. So it’s easy for people to blame the head of state.

True, but as Moses found out thousands of years ago, people problems can be resolved the easiest at the closest level to them.

Look at a city like Ferguson, or Baltimore. People expect the Federal govt to do something and fix those cities. Obama even sent the FBI in there. The fact of the matter is the Federal Govt cant do anything. It should be the city leaders who are held to the fire and make the needed changes. The city leaders see police officers acting inappropriately, they should fire those officers and the chief of police. Instead they blame the whole country for Systemic Racism. Instead of the city leaders doing anything about the issues, they go out and join the protest and pander for a vote, all the while blaming Trump. Trump has enough of his own faults we could point out, but he is not a sacrificial lamb.

biggestal99 · 2020-10-23T20:02:54.366Z

Toll_Collector:

Most people view the United States as one big country, not 50 separate states. So it’s easy for people to blame the head of state.

It is one big country. That is a fact. We are United and not 50 separate entities.

We have a common bond.

Allan

komobu · 2020-10-23T20:07:09.298Z

biggestal99:

It is one big country. That is a fact. We are United and not 50 separate entities.

I see this way of looking at it as part of the problem.

biggestal99:

We have a common bond.

Allan

We do have a common bond, but so what?

WuWei · 2020-10-23T20:07:39.859Z

komobu:

We do have a common bond

What is it?

komobu · 2020-10-23T20:10:20.549Z

biggestal99:

So does that work for everything.

Natural disasters for instance.

Isn’t there times that citizens should get some assistance from the feds.

Covid is a natural disaster yet you want the feds to have nothing to do with it.

Allan

The federal govt exists to SUPPORT the states. Not rule over them. Do you see any areas in the crisis where the federal govt did not support New York? Did they sent the mercy ship there? Did they send meals and PPE?

The Federal Govt should not be running the states. That is the states job. They should have a support roll.

komobu · 2020-10-23T20:12:10.366Z

WuWei:

What is it?

We are Americans and use the same language, monetary system, military etc etc

the_trade · 2020-10-23T20:12:42.085Z

One can see a doctor that does not take new Medicare patients. I’ll give you an example. My late mother was once denied treatment by a cardiologist who declined to take on new medicare patients. When I offered to pay out of my pocket for her treatment, his staff told me that was impossible unless she opted out of Medicare because the government considers that fraud.

Think about that for a minute. I offer to pay cash for the doctor’s services thereby alleviating the burden of payment from the taxpayer/Medicare system, and also alleviating the doctor’s office of the burden of dealing with the bureaucracy to get paid, and the government considers that fraud.

This is why libertarians like myself are so resistant to further socialization of healthcare. Health care is already way too screwed up by government as is.

Toll_Collector · 2020-10-23T20:12:47.302Z

biggestal99:

It is one big country. That is a fact. We are United and not 50 separate entities.

We have a common bond.

We absolutely are 50 separate entities. Only the federal government binds them. But that doesn’t make them one as far as my life is concerned. There are separate conditions and laws in every state. If it was one big country then I wouldn’t talk about leaving NJ when I retire in a couple of years. I’d stay because it isn’t any different in North Carolina or Florida. But it’s quite different.

WuWei · 2020-10-23T20:17:20.230Z

komobu:

WuWei:

What is it?

We are Americans and use the same language, monetary system, military etc etc

We don’t actually use the military, but I get your point.

I don’t know that I agree about the language.

biggestal99 · 2020-10-23T20:21:47.860Z

Toll_Collector:

We absolutely are 50 separate entities. Only the federal government binds them. But that doesn’t make them one as far as my life is concerned. There are separate conditions and laws in every state. If it was one big country then I wouldn’t talk about leaving NJ when I retire in a couple of years. I’d stay because it isn’t any different in North Carolina or Florida. But it’s quite different

There are differences of course. But the constitution unites us together.

There are things the states control. There are things the constitution controls.

Texas can’t ban same sex marriages because of the equal protection clause of the constitution.

But Texas can ban casino gambling.

So your 50 separate entities is flawed.

It’s a unique situation in modern times.

There is no other country like it in the world.

Allan