Higher Education in America – too expensive, takes too much time, has a limited “shelf-life", and consists of a great deal of content that has limited practical value

[Eagle-Keeper]

@WuWei

outstanding! I wonder why learning “how to think” costs so much more than learning how to do?

It’s called greed along with some very good marketing. Also it doesn’t hurt to get government on your side!

[LucyLou]

@Eagle-Keeper

One of the best posts I’ve seen! First of all in a number of my other posts I clearly noted that exception to what I have been saying here would be the STEM/Health related majors/professions.

$30,000 for in state tuition, are you kidding me? That is a lot! This is the problem that I have been trying to discuss! The fact is that a four degree is going to cost you about $120,000. That is like buying a house in many states! As far as I’m concerned part of the solution has to involve reducing the coursework required to get ones degree.

That does seem high. In state tuition for University of Wisconsin schools runs about $7500 to$10500.

[Toll_Collector]

@Eagle-Keeper

Part of the problem with that type of thinking regarding the role of education is that it is not practical and has become very expensive (for some) and time consuming. First thing I would note is that many of the jobs college graduates get do not require high level thinking skill, but rather are typically mundane and repeatative and simply involve routine type tasks. Furthermore with the liberal arts classes they usually entail a professor in a lecture hall of say 50-250 students. Whereas the idealistic view of education would have students being intellectually nurtured by a professor is sort of an Aristotlian notion in which Plato walked around the garden with a handful of his students philosophizing about life. Obviously that is not practical today. But that is why college was intended for a small percentage of the population.

Back in the 80s fewer people got a higher education so there wasn’t as much competition. There were plenty of jobs available that would pay good with just high school. If you wanted more, you got a higher ed. Now the competition is stiffer. I’m one of the luckier high school grads that makes over 30 bucks an hour. I’m happy with that. But still my wife dwarfs me.

[Eagle-Keeper]

@LucyLou

That does seem high. In state tuition for University of Wisconsin schools runs about $7500 to$10500.

$30,000 for in state tuition is very high. Rutgers here in NJ I believe is about $15,000, although that does not include room and board, or books and fees.

[Eagle-Keeper]

Part of the problem especially here in NJ is that so many people have degrees now. There is a good number of people working in jobs like waiters/waitresses, retail, bank tellers, bus drivers, etc., who have college degrees.

[dantes]

It’s a much harder skill to learn.

[dantes]

About anything.

No, it doesn’t imply you don’t know how to think without a college degree.

But good, strong analytical thinking is a generalizable skill that you learn (or at the very least improve upon) with a good college degree, especially liberal arts.

[dantes]

Maybe introduction liberal arts are large lectures but even then I don’t think it’s common.

Liberal arts classes are typically smaller, 20-30 maybe and usually are discussions, points and counter points, regarding class material that is read in advance.

At least in my experience it’s very little lecture.

There’s nothing impractical about it.

[WuWei]

@LucyLou

What would have been so hard about clearly stating what you are talking about?

You purposely wrote that sentence to read as though you had attained 2 degrees in 14 months yourself.

It’s what I do.

What did we learn about assuming today, Lucy?

[WuWei]

@dantes

It’s a much harder skill to learn.

ok, if you say so Monsieur Rodin.

[WuWei]

@dantes

It’s a much harder skill to learn.

Wait a minute! You’re right. The brain isn’t ready until 25 and we expect them to be finished by then. And then there’s the reluctance to do so by so many.

It probably is harder. LOL.

[dantes]

Just keep telling yourself whatever you need to believe.

[WuWei]

@dantes

Just keep telling yourself whatever you need to believe.

The 25 year-old think is science. I posted a link.

[dantes]

It doesn’t say what you think it says.

[Guilds]

@Eagle-Keeper

I fully understand that and alluded to that situation as well and indicated as such in my post. My point to that is that the value is much more with the piece of paper (diploma/degree) than that of the actual coursework and the time spent doing the coursework (again I will say the caveat being STEM type professions). And to me that is flawed system.

Which system is flawed? The higher education system, or our economic system?

Both could be a correct answer, IMO. The biting question, is what do we do to improve them.

[WuWei]

@dantes

It doesn’t say what you think it says.

yes it does. It says exactly what I know it does.

[dantes]

Learning how to read scientific literature is another skill some learn in college but more likely grad school.

It’s not as easy as it sounds.

[WuWei]

@dantes

Learning how to read scientific literature is another skill some learn in college but more likely grad school.

It’s not as easy as it sounds.

Ok, if you say so.

[WuWei]

The rational part of a teen’s brain isn’t fully developed and won’t be until age 25 or so.

In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently. Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain’s rational part. This is the part of the brain that responds to situations with good judgment and an awareness of long-term consequences. Teens process information with the amygdala. This is the emotional part.

https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?ContentTypeID=1&ContentID=3051

Tell me how to read that.

[dantes]

I do say so. You know it’s true too.