Helping others with obesity, diabetes

Gaius · 2020-12-03T02:12:20.153Z

Thank you for the thread Liberty.

I don’t know much about diabetes, but I do know a thing or two about weight loss. My dad was a skinny relatively healthy diabetic (gym teacher who actually enjoyed exercise), so I guess weight-loss alone is not sufficient for treating diabetes. (Apparently even skinny people who like exercise have to watch their sugar intake.)

Dad always said the best exercise is whatever you can stick to. He was a big fan of teaching others to take regular walks. Since you don’t have to change your clothes, drive to a gym, shower after etc., and since it is easy, it is the exercise that people are mostly likely to stick to.

1.) One famous doctor, a cardiologist, prescribed all sorts of weight-loss programs for his patients and, having an open mind, eventually realized that the diet that works best (low-carb vs low-fat, vs low sugar vs whole food etc.) is whatever people stick to.

2.) Another, started by asking “why did America used to be one of the healthiest nations on earth and in a few short decades become the fattest and one of the least healthy?”

He studied what the WW2 generation ate, vs what people ate each decade after and found our calorie intake did not increase much, though we did switch from whole foods and more protein to boxed and microwaved foods, which are packed and packed with cheap carbs.

Then he studied what Americans drank during each decade and found EXACTLY the huge upswing in calories one would expect. Drinks are to blame, eating patterns, not so much. It was groundbreaking and valuable research until he lost his reputation when he started trying to package and sell his own high-protein diet plan.

That’s my 50-cents.

Janet_Miller · 2020-12-03T02:12:41.827Z

Afraid I’m a carb junkie. Gained 10 lbs on a medication called Divalproex (anti seizure drug prescribed as migraine preventive, associated with appetite & weight increase) & menopause.

10lbs is extra, but nothing to cry about. It’s cool to offer the topic & support, though.

I find daily exercise & barre stretches helpful to stay active & to reduce joint pain. Barre stretches can be googled as beginner ballet class on YouTube.

Gotta go to work now. May come back to the topic later.

Samm · 2020-12-03T06:44:53.597Z

Liberty323:

Wow, that’s amazing that you can wear the same size as you did as a college freshman back in '65! You must have a metabolism like my mom. Like you, she doesn’t have a sweet tooth but loves potatoes and bread. She is about 5’3", 95 pounds, very tiny, and has a great metabolism. If I eat the same foods as her I retain water like a sponge. One Thanksgiving weekend I gained like 12 pounds (mostly water weight) and lost it in 3 days after eliminating the carbs. Crazy.
I’m with you concerning the negative effects of avoiding others like we are now. We won’t know for several years what this thing has done to us collectively. I’m anticipating an epidemic of “popcorn lung” or some other type of breathing problems for the heavy mask wearers. Now that we don’t get nearly as much sunlight I take about 4000 IU’s of vitamin D3 daily, as well as some other supplements, including zinc.
What you’ve done with your nutrition obviously works for you, keep it up! I wish I was so fortunate.

It’s not so much metabolism as will power, or perhaps more appropriately, won’t power. I know when to stop eating even though I’d like more. But I am lazy about food prep. I don’t like to put much time or effort into cooking nor do I think about what I might want to eat tomorrow. Fortunately, long ago, my wife and I came to the arraignment that whoever cooks doesn’t do the dishes and she doesn’t like what I cook. She puts a lot of thought into her menus, so consequently, my nutrition is far better than if I was not doing the dishes.

Janet_Miller · 2020-12-03T07:15:02.132Z

“…the typical bad advice from nutritionists or doctors…”

Have known several individuals, two men & two women, who lost weight on type 2 diabetes diagnosis & doctors’ calculations as to how much they needed to lose to lower glucose & cholesterol.

All of them looked emaciated when they lost the prescribed weight, & half gained it back. Of the two who kept it off, both appear sickly.

IMO Calculations based on the lab aspects of the disease really don’t look at the whole patient on an individual level. They’re only looking at reducing glucose & lipid levels to normal levels.

For example, one weighed 280 at “6’0’—definitely overweight. His doctor calculated he would need to drop 80 lbs.

Sounds reasonable. But the individual in question is a large frame body build & looked deathly ill & was tired of getting pitiful stares.

He ended up gaining the weight back & now thinks 220 would be reasonable. I like your individual approach as opposed to blindly accepting a doctor’s recommendation. What works for one may not for another.

Axxowiz · 2020-12-03T08:28:00.555Z

I was lucky my mom was a portion nazi, always preaching about “this is the amount needed” and nothing else. It was hard to argue with the parents as they were always slim.

They were from west Germany originally so we ate plenty of meat and one side dish called schupfnudeln which is basically mash potatoes inside of pasta. I still love that one. It was all about portions, not what you ate. And I workout a few days a week not nothing major about an hour a day 3 times a week and some cardio. Just hit 38 years old and have only gained 13 points since high school.

I think even if I took out the exercise (Not going to) I would have gained max 18 pounds in the 20 years after high school and that is with working on a computer most of the day.

So I stand by portion control mine, my calorie count is at 1800-2000 calories a day, I rarely feel hungry. She would also let us spoil ourselves on Saturday with a desert so I still do that. For drinks just water, coffee and occasionally diet mtd dew (A habit formed at college).

Liberty323 · 2020-12-03T15:41:50.126Z

Gaius:

Thank you for the thread Liberty.

I don’t know much about diabetes, but I do know a thing or two about weight loss. My dad was a skinny relatively healthy diabetic (gym teacher who actually enjoyed exercise), so I guess weight-loss alone is not sufficient for treating diabetes. (Apparently even skinny people who like exercise have to watch their sugar intake.)

Dad always said the best exercise is whatever you can stick to. He was a big fan of teaching others to take regular walks. Since you don’t have to change your clothes, drive to a gym, shower after etc., and since it is easy, it is the exercise that people are mostly likely to stick to.

You’re very welcome. Most of those with type 2 diabetes are obese because of insulin resistance, but I have seen the occasional skinny person with type 2 diabetes. Is it possible he has type 1? Type 1 diabetes is where the pancreas produces no insulin (fat storing hormone) and type 2 is when there is too much insulin being produced, which leads to obesity.
Your dad is right on the money about exercise, and particularly walking. When I first started on my journey I tried to kill myself in the gym and actually gained weight. After I changed the way I ate, I lost my first 60 pounds while walking 3 miles a few times a week.

Gaius:

1.) One famous doctor, a cardiologist, prescribed all sorts of weight-loss programs for his patients and, having an open mind, eventually realized that the diet that works best (low-carb vs low-fat, vs low sugar vs whole food etc.) is whatever people stick to.

Absolutely! Sustainability is a must, so if you have a relatively healthy metabolism anything you can stick to is best. Before I wrecked my metabolism with all the processed carbs and sugar I used to get my “beach body” every year by replacing Coke with Diet Coke for a couple months haha.
The only disagreement I have with the doctor is for those with insulin resistance. Unless they cut out some of the carbs they will not lose weight because elevated insulin in the blood sends a fat storage signal to the body. It’s why type 2 diabetics gain more and more weight as the insulin they take (or the drugs that promote additional insulin creation) are increased.

Gaius:

2.) Another, started by asking “why did America used to be one of the healthiest nations on earth and in a few short decades become the fattest and one of the least healthy?”

He studied what the WW2 generation ate, vs what people ate each decade after and found our calorie intake did not increase much, though we did switch from whole foods and more protein to boxed and microwaved foods, which are packed and packed with cheap carbs.

Then he studied what Americans drank during each decade and found EXACTLY the huge upswing in calories one would expect. Drinks are to blame, eating patterns, not so much. It was groundbreaking and valuable research until he lost his reputation when he started trying to package and sell his own high-protein diet plan.

That’s my 50-cents.

Yeah, I tend to tune out once they try to sell a product. All of the obese people I worked with asked me if they needed to buy whatever “Keto” drink, pill or powder and I told them to save their money and just cut carbs. There’s a lot of hucksters out there running these scams and they make a bad name for it.
I agree that most Americans are eating crap compared to back in the day when they ate mostly home-cooked, whole foods. The sugary drinks are a huge change as well considering most use high fructose corn syrup (higher insulin response) rather than real sugar, which was bad enough.
One of the major changes that came about after WW2 is the whole low-fat theory to health and weight loss, which actually had the opposite effect. Of course, just like everything else, follow the money (the sugar industry helped fund this (see link). The food pyramid I grew up with in the 70’s and 80’s looks like something I would use to fatten my mini pig with, although it can be fine for people without metabolic syndrome. For obese people with insulin resistance, the “cut fat, eat 6 times a day, cut calories” advice for weight loss can lead to vicious binge cycles because of lack of satiety.
Great post!

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074/50-years-ago-sugar-industry-quietly-paid-scientists-to-point-blame-at-fat

Liberty323 · 2020-12-03T16:05:12.005Z

I’m a recovering carb addict. For me, pasta and baked sweets are like crack! Abstinence is what has helped me regain my health. Back in the day I could knock out entire pots of spaghetti or entire cakes when I was particularly stressed.

Liberty323 · 2020-12-03T18:05:39.488Z

Hey, can’t argue with the results! It has worked great for you. I lived in Bamberg for a while so I’m familiar with that dish. Sometime I crave schnitzel and hefeweizen even though I know they would be terrible for me. I wish my parents had taught me portion control growing up.

Axxowiz · 2020-12-03T18:48:15.672Z

I know exactly where that’s at. My family lived outside of Stuttgart in a town called Waiblingen, before moving to the states. Grandparents and a few aunts, one uncle and cousins are still there.

I can’t stress portion control enough. My wife adheres to portions even better than me. She follows a very strict rule were every year of life (Birthday) she takes off an additional 25 calories to her diet. Just small changes but always doing them.

Liberty323 · 2020-12-03T19:22:04.806Z

I admire you and your wife’s discipline. My issue with junk food addiction goes back to my childhood, ugh. It was a way to I guess get a quick dopamine hit when living under near-constant stress and anxiety. Sugar can be just like any other drug I think.

Axxowiz · 2020-12-03T21:07:59.022Z

Oh ya I agree one has to watch it, I think I was just lucky to be raised with home cooking. Treats were something we would get once a week it didn’t seem weird at the time and I look back it that she did that with us.

Gaius · 2020-12-06T17:34:21.768Z

(Again I know nothing about diabetes, but I do know a thing or two about weight-loss.)
It is unfortunate that today, discussion of proper diet and esp weight-loss programs often takes on a tone like politics, or even like religious proselytizing.

In offering the following factoid, I intend NONE of the above. It is just a tidbit of information.

Cooking something in water, in a non-stick pan (limited oil) or conventional pan-frying each add or subtract a different number of calories to food. For that reason the USDA guidelines are called guidelines and list the calories before cooking.

That decision by the USDA can seem to advocate we eat less meat.
A slice of bacon, for example contains

40-plus calories per slice before cooking but only
20 calories after cooking.
The only way you could consume all the calories listed on the package is if you lick the pan, lick the stove and lick the residue off your range hood.
Otherwise five slices of crisp-cooked bacon has about the same number of calories as an apple (95)

A 4-ounce (80%) hamburger contains

375 calories before cooking
about 195 calories after cooking.
(you can sometimes consume more calories by eating the fancy bun.)

But as you can see even though the label seems to advocate we eat less meat, an anti-meat diet is not always a good path to weight loss. If that is the one you can stick to, GOOD. But if you are ore the carnivore type, do not be accidentally deceived there is hope.

I wish you well.

Janet_Miller · 2020-12-07T09:29:02.762Z

Paraphrasing is it possible skinny person has Type I Diabetes?

Yes:

Prevention – 28 Oct 21

Type 1 vs. Type 2 Diabetes: What's the Difference?

Experts break down the symptoms, causes, and treatments of both types.

Type I is autoimmune & generally doesn’t involve obesity. IIRC Type 2 tends to run in family.

However I’m not sure if it’s genetics of the disease, or certain behaviors that may be learned in families that are more likely to be inherited. An example of the latter would be watching sports on tv rather than being physically active.

Liberty323 · 2020-12-07T13:47:00.712Z

Yes ma’am, I know it’s possible because all except one of the people with Type 1 I know were skinny. I was asking if it is possible that your father has Type 1 rather than Type 2.

DMK · 2020-12-07T13:58:10.582Z

Liberty323:

I agree that most Americans are eating crap compared to back in the day when they ate mostly home-cooked, whole foods.

That is a large part of the crux of the matter.

For instance, if I am making a beef stew I add marrow bones. Not only do they add flavor and nutrients but they help to keep you feeling full so you don’t snack on garbage.

Call_me_Ishmael · 2020-12-07T14:25:53.427Z

my SHTF TEOTWAWKI stockpile is not terrible for maybe 6 months. But I had a year’s supply and after I got it and assessed it, I concluded that a big chunk is carb heavy. I don’t mean twinkies and white flour. No. I only have unprocessed whole wheat berries in the wheat category. But a couple hundred lbs of corn and hundreds of pounds in beans, buckwheat, quinoa, lentils…
Not all of those are carb friendly.
Some are though. At least half the beans are black soybeans… very little carbs there. If you arnt familiar with black soybeans and low carbs are important to you, check out dry black soybeans… not regular black beans, black soybeans. Amazing low carbs.
I did collect some white sugar, cane syrup, and molasses but that’s for bartering.

I also have lots of freeze dried okra, broccoli, kale and fruit. The freeze dried fruit is not carb friendly though. No added sugar but its still high in carbs. But I also have alot of air dried fruit and discovered that it has added sugar. Ugh. I wasn’t paying attention.

I will have to be thoughtful in how to use the stuff like corn and carb-high fruits and vegetables and mix it with low carb items like meat.

I have some hardcopy nutrition books that lists the nutritional content. No internet in TEOTWAWKI!

Liberty323 · 2020-12-07T14:27:00.083Z

That’s awesome! They are very nutrient dense. I haven’t tried them in stew but have used them to make bone broth.

DMK · 2020-12-07T22:19:06.617Z

Liberty323:

That’s awesome! They are very nutrient dense. I haven’t tried them in stew but have used them to make bone broth.

When I bake a chicken or turkey I simmer the bones for a few hours and freeze the broth. You can use this in recipes as well. Same idea, get the nutrients and more flavor

DMK · 2020-12-07T22:21:44.999Z

Call_me_Ishmael:

I did collect some white sugar, cane syrup, and molasses but that’s for bartering.

I stocked up on cigarettes and alcohol for that. I figure I can trade a pint and a pack for weeks’ food supply

Just joking BTW

Optrader · 2020-12-10T20:05:41.296Z

Great topic! As someone who struggles with weight and a family history of diabetes, I know it’s coming if I don’t change. I was on a program called VIRTA for months. It was a very low carb, high protein diet. Blood sugar was checked everyday to keep your body in ketosis. It worked wonders! I lost 30 lbs. The problem was sustaining it. The primary breakfast consisted of eggs… I love eggs, but can only eat them so long. It was the same foods over and over that did me in, that and Covid, which has kept me and my wife cooped up and too inactive. I gained it all back. I’m going to try again after the holidays.

Need some good low carb, easy to prepare recipes for variety. Low carb diets really can reverse type 2… Thanks! Very inspiring when you know other people have found answers that work!!