Have you chosen salvation by scapegoat? Is that Moral?

[Gnostic_Bishop]

@Rurudyne

As with those in the passages above the choice is yours. You can be morally outraged and lost because you’re too good for that or you can do the other thing. Your choice.

John 12; 39 40 belies what you say as God controls if I believe or not.

Do you deny that scripture?

Regards
DL

[AlexMcAlpine]

@Gnostic_Bishop

As to the notion of a second Adam, are you happy and agreeing that if Jesus was born of a virgin Marry and Yahweh, an androgynous God, then Jesus, like all parthenogenetic birth, would have been genetically female all of his life.

I started a thread requesting more info about gnostic Christianity. Would you mind explaining your beliefs there - give people a chance to ask you questions for a change?

[Gnostic_Bishop]

@Meriweather

God redeems us and draws us into salvation. We are his servants and we work for Him.

Then you go against what Jesus said. He said he came to serve and not to be served. Look it up.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic_Bishop]

@AlexMcAlpine

Same with God hardening pharoah’s heart so the Jews wouldn’t be set free until after 10 plagues had been sent. No free will for pharaoh there.

U C 20/20 on this.

Regards
DL

[Gnostic_Bishop]

@AlexMcAlpine

I started a thread requesting more info about gnostic Christianity. Would you mind explaining your beliefs there - give people a chance to ask you questions for a change?

Thanks. I will see you there.

Regards
DL

[AlexMcAlpine]

@Optrader

My posts have influenced God to create Hell and cast unbelievers in??

No. Your words influence the people who read them to reject Christianity based on what you say and do in your own small little world.

If you turn even one person away from Christ because of your sarcasm, that’s a soul lost to God and he’ll be pissed about it. You descend the rungs of the ladder of hell precipitously with each post you make…

[Meriweather]

@Gnostic_Bishop

Then you go against what Jesus said. He said he came to serve and not to be served.

A reminder of what he told his followers is in Matthew and Mark: It will not be so among you. Whoever wishes to be first must be their servant.

Jesus pointed out that he did not come to be served, and those who wish to be with him and like him should follow his example.

[Gnostic_Bishop]

@Meriweather

Jesus pointed out that he did not come to be served, and those who wish to be with him and like him should follow his example.

Exactly. We are to serve our fellow man and not a God who has no needs or wants other than to serve us.

To think that an all powerful God would pine for us to serve him is ridiculous. We have nothing he wants, but we sure need his service, which he wants to give.

Regards
DL

[Meriweather]

@Gnostic_Bishop

Exactly. We are to serve our fellow man and not a God who has no needs or wants other than to serve us.

Serving one another is to serve God. What we do for the least, we do for Him. There is no separating the two.

[Rurudyne]

@Gnostic_Bishop

@Rurudyne

As with those in the passages above the choice is yours. You can be morally outraged and lost because you’re too good for that or you can do the other thing. Your choice.

John 12; 39 40 belies what you say as God controls if I believe or not.

Do you deny that scripture?

Regards
DL

I would counter that in context it bears close relationship between Romans 1:18-32 or even when the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart. People to whom the knowledge of the Lord, of His Gospel, has never been given are in a position similar to those who have never seen His wonders.

When speaking of wonders here if it is the early plagues against Egypt or the signs that Christ performed it makes little practical difference even though, as Christ put it, with the latter something greater than either the temple or Solomon was there.

But when people have known about the Gospel, or if they have seen or heard the testimony of His wonders, especially if they’ve seen, and they STILL hearden their hearts in unbelief … those folks are in a VERY bad place to be!

… and they’ve no one to blame but themselves for it.

[AlexMcAlpine]

@Rurudyne

But when people have known about the Gospel, or if they have seen or heard the testimony of His wonders, especially if they’ve seen, and they STILL hearden their hearts in unbelief … those folks are in a VERY bad place to be!

If God manifests himself to me and proves he exist…and convinces me he’s not a psycho, then sure I’d worship him.

But if all I hear is other people telling me about how wonderful God is when all I have to do is read the Bible and see he’s a psycho…then it’s hardly my fault if I “harden my heart” against him.

God, like any god, has to earn worship.

[DaMan]

@Rurudyne

But when people have known about the Gospel, or if they have seen or heard the testimony of His wonders, especially if they’ve seen, and they STILL hearden their hearts in unbelief … those folks are in a VERY bad place to be!

… and they’ve no one to blame but themselves for it.

I’m sure many Muslims say the same about you.

[Rurudyne]

@DaMan

@Rurudyne

But when people have known about the Gospel, or if they have seen or heard the testimony of His wonders, especially if they’ve seen, and they STILL hearden their hearts in unbelief … those folks are in a VERY bad place to be!

… and they’ve no one to blame but themselves for it.

I’m sure many Muslims say the same about you.

The idea of exclusivity when it comes to fundamental truth is not just sane, but necessary. Simply, truth does NOT unite. It divides. The more fundamental the truth the greater and more profound the division.

It is universalism that is the intellectual puttering of mad hatters.

I have no fear of Islam: it has been of the spirit of antichrist since Mohammad became a false prophet.

[Optrader]

@AlexMcAlpine

@Optrader

My posts have influenced God to create Hell and cast unbelievers in??

No. Your words influence the people who read them to reject Christianity based on what you say and do in your own small little world.

If you turn even one person away from Christ because of your sarcasm, that’s a soul lost to God and he’ll be pissed about it. You descend the rungs of the ladder of hell precipitously with each post you make…

Heavens to Betsy!! You mean you were right on the verge of repenting of your sin and accepting Jesus as your savior until I posted the truth of Hell in Hannitys forum and you were so offended that you changed your mind? Not…

[Meriweather]

@Optrader

Heavens to Betsy!! You mean you were right on the verge of repenting of your sin and accepting Jesus as your savior until I posted the truth of Hell in Hannitys forum and you were so offended that you changed your mind?

This is why I love Rabbinical commentary on the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart. They point out that God, like the sun, effects things differently. The sun can melt wax and harden clay. With Pharaoh we see where he saw what the right thing to do was, but that only hardened his heart against it so that he could hang on to his own status quo.

Being shown (or knowing) what is right has the same effects today. Some hearts melt and do what is right; other hearts harden against any change, even the right change.

Our own thoughts and ways take on lives of their own, and all life fights to live on. New ideas must be stomped on, otherwise they may grow and stifle the life out of those that have made their stronghold. For example, common sense tells everyone that people who wrote the Biblical accounts about God wanted to present God as Holy in contrast to what humans were doing.

Instead of doing further study, a thought takes hold…“If I read the Bible my way, I can think of God as not only as the unholy one, but psycho. Therefore, it is up to God to prove to me…” These thoughts will not allow the growth of the thought, Perhaps I misunderstood. Perhaps someone can give me a better understanding of what the original author was saying.

The same, of course, is true of our studies on hell. Or anything. We can literally drive ourselves crazy with this, which is why it is vital to watch our every thought to begin with. Second guessing oneself is never any fun.

[DaMan]

@Rurudyne

The idea of exclusivity when it comes to fundamental truth is not just sane, but necessary. Simply, truth does NOT unite. It divides. The more fundamental the truth the greater and more profound the division.

It is universalism that is the intellectual puttering of mad hatters.

I have no fear of Islam: it has been of the spirit of antichrist since Mohammad became a false prophet.

I get it. You think your religion is true. Billions dont.

[Optrader]

@Meriweather

@Optrader

Heavens to Betsy!! You mean you were right on the verge of repenting of your sin and accepting Jesus as your savior until I posted the truth of Hell in Hannitys forum and you were so offended that you changed your mind?

This is why I love Rabbinical commentary on the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart. They point out that God, like the sun, effects things differently. The sun can melt wax and harden clay. With Pharaoh we see where he saw what the right thing to do was, but that only hardened his heart against it so that he could hang on to his own status quo.

Being shown (or knowing) what is right has the same effects today. Some hearts melt and do what is right; other hearts harden against any change, even the right change.

Our own thoughts and ways take on lives of their own, and all life fights to live on. New ideas must be stomped on, otherwise they may grow and stifle the life out of those that have made their stronghold. For example, common sense tells everyone that people who wrote the Biblical accounts about God wanted to present God as Holy in contrast to what humans were doing.

Instead of doing further study, a thought takes hold…“If I read the Bible my way, I can think of God as not only as the unholy one, but psycho. Therefore, it is up to God to prove to me…” These thoughts will not allow the growth of the thought, Perhaps I misunderstood. Perhaps someone can give me a better understanding of what the original author was saying.

The same, of course, is true of our studies on hell. Or anything. We can literally drive ourselves crazy with this, which is why it is vital to watch our every thought to begin with. Second guessing oneself is never any fun.

Much truth here Meri. People say to Christians “prove to me”… I as a Christian cannot convince or convict anyone of anything, nor is it my job.

I see evidence of God everywhere I look. He loves us and wants us to believe in Him and it is the Holy Spirit that works in man’s heart to bring that conviction. In my time in Hannity land, I have posted many times that God commands us to study for ourselves, and we have unprecedented freedom in America to do so. You and I have some common beliefs and some different beliefs, but each of us is responsible for our own beliefs. I present what I believe, but faith, by definition cannot be proved.

I disagree with you on things, but I have always respected your civility and the fact that you defend your beliefs with reason, not just ignorant, unstudied bashing masquerading as a genuine desire to engage in an exchange of beliefs and ideas. I can discern the difference and adjust the tone of my posts accordingly…

[DaMan]

No one can dance around the fact that Hell being allowed to exist by God, puts God at the lowest moral standing possible. And trying to scare others of Hell or endorse Hell, makes you compliant.

[Meriweather]

@Optrader

I see evidence of God everywhere I look. He loves us and wants us to believe in Him and it is the Holy Spirit that works in man’s heart to bring that conviction. In my time in Hannity land, I have posted many times that God commands us to study for ourselves, and we have unprecedented freedom in America to do so. You and I have some common beliefs and some different beliefs, but each of us is responsible for our own beliefs. I present what I believe, but faith, by definition cannot be proved.

I enjoy conversing with you as well. We are all unique people with different thoughts and different lines of study. It is interesting to see when and where people diverge to explore and discover the truths of different paths. For me it all returns to love of the Lord–or simply, love. When our beliefs–whatever they may be or not be–draws us into love, then we are exploring a good, worthwhile path. When our explorations draws us the Lord, we are doubly blessed.

Likewise, pursuing and exploring truth is also very much worthwhile. We believe God loves truth–even a truth that there is no God. I often wonder if when all is revealed, those who believed there is no God will be saying, “See, not a God as you believed” while we respond, “But never-the-less, God.”

Listening to others journeys and explorations has value.

[AlexMcAlpine]

@Optrader

Heavens to Betsy!! You mean you were right on the verge of repenting of your sin and accepting Jesus as your savior until I posted the truth of Hell in Hannitys forum and you were so offended that you changed your mind?

No.

I mean the lurkers who read here, the people whom you interact with in your life, etc.

I also see that my irony is too subtle.

I was attempting to mimic a few of the posters here who will spend a few paragraphs talking about God’s love and how he wants us all to love him, etc., then invariably at the end of their posts slip in a little threat…

“But if you don’t love him, you’ll get what you deserve”

or more bluntly,

“But if you reject God’s love, he’ll send you straight to hell.”

Or you could take it as a warning…you’re so self-satisfied, even though you know you’re a worthless human being who doesn’t deserve God’s love, that you’re going to go to heaven anyway…but as I keep warning you, since your sole purpose on this planet is to bring souls to Jesus and you keep failing at that…you may not end up where you think you’re going to end up.

But since you are a worthless sinner who knows you don’t deserve Gods love, I’m sure you’ll be okay with that.