Gun Banning Promise

[Steel-W0LF]

@Borgia_dude

@FlameHeart

England, a country with a more congruent culture to the U.S than Japan, also has an issue with suicide. But their method is jumping. Gun laws have not stopped them from doing it.

Again, I am not saying if we magically got rid of guns that suicides would disappear.

So let’s look at the country you consider most like the US:

Guns per 100 people
UK: 4.6
US: 120

Suicides per 100,000
UK: 8.9
US: 15.3

Seems to support the trend, don’t you think?

France.

I’ll wait.

[Samm]

@Borgia_dude

Then how do you know Japan has a low gun prevalence and high suicide rate? You can’t define those terms in a vacuum.

Did you have to look it up to know those facts? Did you find out that I was wrong?

[Borgia_dude]

@Samm

@Borgia_dude

Then how do you know Japan has a low gun prevalence and high suicide rate? You can’t define those terms in a vacuum.

Did you have to look it up to know those facts? Did you find out that I was wrong?

???
I think we are talking past each other. A number by itself is neither high nor low. It only becomes high or low when you make a comparison to something else. That is what I am saying.

Japan’s suicide rate is 18.5 per 100k.
Japan’s firearms are 0.3 per 100k

How do you know Japan’s 18.5 is high? You must, by necessity compare to something.

[Borgia_dude]

@Steel-W0LF

@Borgia_dude

@FlameHeart

England, a country with a more congruent culture to the U.S than Japan, also has an issue with suicide. But their method is jumping. Gun laws have not stopped them from doing it.

Again, I am not saying if we magically got rid of guns that suicides would disappear.

So let’s look at the country you consider most like the US:

Guns per 100 people
UK: 4.6
US: 120

Suicides per 100,000
UK: 8.9
US: 15.3

Seems to support the trend, don’t you think?

France.

I’ll wait.

Thanks. So I looked up what I could find and I can’t find any unique reason for France’s high suicide rate so it appears France contradicts my premise. Something may exist that I don’t know about but for now I will agree it is an outlier that appears to defy the trend. I never made the claim that the trend had no exceptions.

An interesting learning is how much of an outlier America is on firearms. Nobody even comes close to our level of ownership. I wonder if the large gun collections skew the stats compared to other countries. After all, you only need one gun in the house to commit suicide.

When I have time maybe I will graph the countries to see if the trend is valid internationally or not. I made no claims about that as my original data was on gun-related fatalities versus guns per person and looked at individual states.

[westaussie]

It is not I that doesn’t understand what I posted; it is you.

[westaussie]

And you still don’t get it.

[Samm]

@Borgia_dude

@Samm

@Borgia_dude

Then how do you know Japan has a low gun prevalence and high suicide rate? You can’t define those terms in a vacuum.

Did you have to look it up to know those facts? Did you find out that I was wrong?

???
I think we are talking past each other. A number by itself is neither high nor low. It only becomes high or low when you make a comparison to something else. That is what I am saying.

Japan’s suicide rate is 18.5 per 100k.
Japan’s firearms are 0.3 per 100k

How do you know Japan’s 18.5 is high? You must, by necessity compare to something.

Move on. You have beaten this dead horse long enough.

[Samm]

@westaussie

It is not I that doesn’t understand what I posted; it is you.

Your words left no room for misinterpretation. “Fewer guns sees fewer suicides.”

Unless you have a different meaning for “see” that I am not familiar with …

[westaussie]

And yet you have most definitely misinterpreted my comment.

[Samm]

@westaussie

And yet you have most definitely misinterpreted my comment.

No I haven’t. And you have given no evidence that I have.

[Borgia_dude]

@Samm

@Borgia_dude

@Samm

@Borgia_dude

Then how do you know Japan has a low gun prevalence and high suicide rate? You can’t define those terms in a vacuum.

Did you have to look it up to know those facts? Did you find out that I was wrong?

???
I think we are talking past each other. A number by itself is neither high nor low. It only becomes high or low when you make a comparison to something else. That is what I am saying.

Japan’s suicide rate is 18.5 per 100k.
Japan’s firearms are 0.3 per 100k

How do you know Japan’s 18.5 is high? You must, by necessity compare to something.

Move on. You have beaten this dead horse long enough.

Is 0.3 low? How do you know Samm?

I think you understand my point now.

[westaussie]

I have informed you that you have misinterpreted my comment. If you choose not to re-visit my post so that you correctly interpret it, that is entirely your prerogative as always.

[WildRose]

You would of course be wrong, we’ve discussed it here many times in various gun control threads.

[kingarthur65]

How many days and how many ways can you guys debate this. It doesn’t take studies to figure out that if you make it harder to use the most popular tool used to commit suicide. It will become more difficult to commit suicide. No need to overthink this.

[WildRose]

Which will do nothing to keep someone determined to commit suicide from doing so as we see every time we look at the numbers from countries with very few guns in the hands of civilians but much higher suicide rates than we have in the US.

[kingarthur65]

@kingarthur65

How many days and how many ways can you guys debate this. It doesn’t take studies to figure out that if you make it harder to use the most popular tool used to commit suicide. It will become more difficult to commit suicide. No need to overthink this.

@WildRose

Which will do nothing to keep someone determined to commit suicide from doing so as we see every time we look at the numbers from countries with very few guns in the hands of civilians but much higher suicide rates than we have in the US.

I really don’t care much about how people in other countries commit suicide. What the hell, give them all guns and easy access to them, I would expect the suicide rate to go up.
It’s just a matter of common sense.

[WildRose]

No it isn’t. If you are determined to kill yourself lack of a gun certainly won’t prevent you from doing so.

Even in this country half the suicides are committed without a gun.

[kingarthur65]

@WildRose

No it isn’t. If you are determined to kill yourself lack of a gun certainly won’t prevent you from doing so.

Even in this country half the suicides are committed without a gun.

The gun just makes it easier, it is the tool of choice for those that commit suicide. Make it harder for them to use a gun and that will make it harder for them to commit suicide.

[WildRose]

It is only the “tool of choice” for 50.1% of people in the US.

If you are serious about killing yourself you’ll get it done with or without a gun, it’s inarguable as the numbers show.

The biggest difference is that people who are only trying to trigger a cry for help with a suicidal gesture won’t use a gun because they don’t want to die, they simply want help.

[kingarthur65]

@WildRose

It is only the “tool of choice” for 50.1% of people in the US.

If you are serious about killing yourself you’ll get it done with or without a gun, it’s inarguable as the numbers show.

The biggest difference is that people who are only trying to trigger a cry for help with a suicidal gesture won’t use a gun because they don’t want to die, they simply want help.

No studies are needed. It’s just common sense. Making access to guns harder would not eliminate suicide. No one is arguing that, but to claim that making it harder for people that want to commit suicide to access guns would have no effect, just defies logic.