Growing evidence that Wuhan coronavirus orginated in a lab

Duh! Don’t you even read your own typed text?

I doubt will ever know the complete truth the CCP did their best to cover everything for a long time. I hope people understand on here I don’t have anything against Chinese people :). Just their government and I wish they would ban these markets as I was reading the other day it’s not a matter of if but when another virus outbreak comes from regions of the world that eat bushmeat and other exotic food, especially in nasty conditions.

Well if zerohedge says it is true then it must be true. :roll_eyes:

And if you report any unflattering news about the Chinese government you rapidly get booted off of Twitter and defunded on You-tube. It is as if the Beijing is censoring through Twitter and You-tube.

That could never happen?

Look past the zero hedge the YouTube video they are referencing didn’t come from them. It is interesting but not affiliated with zero hedge

I swear I posted this before I even knew it was a thing

I don’t YouTube or twitter so I googled twitter and China cover up. An endless array of tweets were there that discussed the Chinese government in an unflattering manner. I checked CNN, same thing.

Actually there are good reasons to keep quiet. For example there have been less than subtle threats to cut off drug shipments from China if the US criticizes the Beijing’s handling of the coronavirus.

Beijing is especially sensitive to criticism from the US government, and the vast majority of experts either work for the government or receive research grants from the government. A simple conversation about the potential repercussions of revealing the lab origin of the virus may be more than enough to keep researchers quiet.

The rest may simply be keeping quiet because colleagues are concerned that China may withhold needed drugs and information about the virus that may be necessary to save lives in the US. They also may wish to avoid being banned for life from any peer-reviewed journals.

I expect it may take several years for the full truth to come out. We did not learn about details of several Soviet bioweapons and nuclear accidents until many years later when Soviet archives were finally open to foreign researchers. The archives revealed the Aral smallpox accident of 1971, the Sverdlovsk anthrax accident of 1979, the Koltsolvo incident with Marburg virus of 1990. All of these accidents resulted in fatalities, but fortunately the Soviets were smart enough to locate their labs in remote parts of Siberia and central Asia, so the loss of life was nothing like we see with the current epidemic.

For now the question of the exact origin of the virus not very important to fighting its spread. On the other hand, lab-source pandemics may become much more frequent and severe if we fail to understand the true origin of the disease. Perhaps once we have proven vaccine and the pandemic is behind us experts may be more willing to admit what they knew all along.

Propaganda for Chinese consumption, empty threats.

How is China going to ban American and western scientists from peer reviewed journals? 99.99% of serious scientists are interested in the truth first and foremost. If they thought this virus was engineered, they would say so. As to accidental release of a natural virus that had never crossed to humans before, I don’t think we’ll ever really know, but the evidence is far from conclusive and weak at best. If that is however what happened, it would strongly suggest that they knew about it even earlier than we think they did. Even in China though, clinical laboratory safety is taken very seriously and it seems unlikely.

China got the publisher of Nature to censor hundreds of papers. How is that possible if scientific journals are only interested in the truth?

In real life journals and scientists face real financial and political pressure that has nothing to do with scientific truth.

A curious (or perhaps suspicious) update to the Nature Medicine paper from the OP is that six refences in the original submission are missing from the current version. For links and discussion related to references in the original submission see:

Here is a link to the original submission with the extra references:

The missing references appear to provide additional information related to developing dangerous gain-of-function features in viruses.

Is this an example of some sort of censorship?

Or did the journal just not have space for additional references?

Only in China did they do that. If you want to sell ■■■■ there, you’ve gotta play by their rules. Yeah, it sucks. Got a solution?

Yes it is censorship.

Yes get our companies out of there we didn’t buddy up when the soviets where communists and let them control our manufacturing.

The only problem I have with it is their stealing of technology and intel…

If the journal publisher willingly censored their papers in China for financial gain, then perhaps they are willing to compromise scientific truth in other ways under financial or political pressure?

The recent Nature Medicine paper represents opinions about the origin of the coronavirus as scientific facts. At the same time it leaves out many references and arguments that would show that a possible lab origin is not only possible but entirely consistent with the available information about the virus and research in Wuhan. (For background discussion see post 65 and 60.)

The paper’s conclusions conveniently fit into the party line from Beijing, and the paper has been used as a primary basis for shutting down discussion about the origin on social media and news media outside of China.

Is it just a coincidence that Nature published this paper while it continues to censor papers in China?

How can anyone trust the motivations of the publisher?

You are speculating, they have a solid reputation in the free world. I agree that it would be better if they didn’t bow to the pressure within China, much better. If you travel to Saudi Arabia, would you not follow their laws though?

They had a solid reputation. The journal was bought out by Springer in 2015, and the buy out appears to have included their integrity.

What amazes me is to see all the questions about the risks related to accidentally release of viruses created by gain-of-function research done in the US and Europe several years ago. Now the suggestion that the current virus came from as a result of that kind of research has been dismissed as a crazy conspiracy theory even though the safety record in China is much worse than in the US, and the technology for producing dangerous viruses has greatly advanced. The Nature paper ignored much of the earlier research and many of the concerns.

Personally I think this commentary about the current status of Nature’s reputation has a lot of merit, especially as it relates to the origin of COVID-19:

I dismissed outright that it was CREATED in a lab speaking for myself. That it may have escaped from a lab is possible, but the genetics are very strong that it was not engineered in a lab.

They aren’t going to stop stealing as long as we’re there. It should have terrified everyone when they threatened to wash us in an ocean of coronavirus because we get our medicine ingredients from them an they were threatening us that they would withhold them.l from us.

Seems like the generations before us were smart enough not to put all our manufacturing in the Soviet Union, but Communist China the greed outweighed the possible negatives which have been in full view for awhile now, as we have enriched a totalitarian government.

There’ s close to 1.5bn decent folks in China and a handful of CCP power brokers and leaders that enslave them.

One of these days the CCP will go too far and the populace will decide slavery is a fate worse than death and remove the problem.

The Daily Telegraph in Australia recently published excerpts from a leaked intelligence study assembled by western governments about the origin of the virus and the early response in China:

. . .major themes include the “deadly denial of human-to-human transmission”, the silencing or “disappearing” of doctors and scientists who spoke out, the destruction of evidence of the virus from genomic studies laboratories, and “bleaching of wildlife market stalls”, along with the refusal to provide live virus samples to international scientists working on a vaccine. . . “the suppression and destruction of evidence” and points to “virus samples ordered destroyed at genomics labs, wildlife market stalls bleached, the genome sequence not shared publicly, the Shanghai lab closure for ‘rectification’, academic articles subjected to prior review by the Ministry of Science and Technology and data on asymptomatic ‘silent carriers’ kept secret”.

The article points reviews published papers that describe gain-of-function experiments associated with the Wuhan lab and risks associated with accidental release from a lab, but it plays down the likelihood that the current virus is a result of similar experiments.

My observation is that 96% of the virus genome is virtually identical to that of a natural virus studied at the lab and reported in published papers. The remaining 4% appears to be from another virus entirely, and that 4% is directly related to the ability of the virus to infect humans. My opinion is that the most likely origin is that scientists in the Wuhan lab were responsible for the insertion of the new genes into an existing bat coronavirus.

A senior Russian scientist agrees and speculates that the virus may have been developed as part of research not intended as a weapon. Other scientists have speculated that the virus may have been developed as part of research into possible HIV vaccines :