God and the Devil


#662

Keeping it that simple ignores reality


#663

You always fall back to free will as a crutch. But you ignore all of the suffering not by choice. Aging, earthquakes, tornados, disease, etc. Also, you always cherry pick situations where God intervenes against to effect our free will. Jesus, for example. Or the pilot example. Its having your cake and eating it too. Very inconsistent.


#664

I’m sure there will be twisting and turning, but it’s pretty ridiculous to believe that God didnt know humans would live like they current live, by choice and not by choice.


#665

Its why the old adage “people plan, God laughs” makes any sense at all.


#666

God just didn’t know we would eat from that tree. Shucks! Welp, I’m loving, better cast an entire race and all future generations into sin.


#667

They’ll usually dodge the question of free will in heaven. Never heard a remotely good explanation of that. I guess we must not have free will in heaven, if free will is the root of suffering. Instead of just creating heaven, we have to play the hunger games first


#668

I’ll put it this way and make my point from a different perspective…

A couple weeks ago, I went to a church other than the one I usually attend for the baptism of a friends daughter. The pastor gave a sermon in which he told the congregation that they shouldn’t fear bad things that happen in thier lives because God had a plan for them, and if they simply followed His will, he would provide for them for thier obedience.

Now, if he is correct, how is it that He doesn’t know what is going to happen to each of us?


#669

On that note, I have heard repeatedly that free will still exists, but because we will see all that is good, we will simply choose good over evil.

Not alleging right or wrong on that front, just pointing out the common wisdom on the matter.


#670

People always say they have faith, pray, etc for God to help them. And it’s a miracle if something does. Or it was Gods plan if it doesnt. But then they’ll turn around and say Gods nowhere to be found because “free will” when the questions get too difficult


#671

Still makes no sense. Its saying that evil is potential in heaven. We are still capable of choosing evil. Infants die before they can learn anything on Earth. Also, is there no disease in heaven? Earthquakes? Cancer? If not, why should those exist here? Hunger games.


#672

The real irony of praying for Gods help is this…IF it is His intention to provide for you in an instance, then you really don’t need to ask for the help to begin with, as it would be His plan to do so either way. I mean, sure, you could assume the truth in the statement that God helps those that help themselves, and insert the idea that asking for His help would be helping oneself, but that is kinda lame.


#673

Again, not claiming its the right mindset, but I will say that it says no such thing about evil in Heaven.

If we take things as they are told, Heaven is a place of untold good. That being the case, its fair to assume that you would “choose” good because there would be no need for evil to exist for needs to be met. No greed, no malice, no hate. Given the story, it makes sense.

The issue is whether the story is an accurate portrayal of the end reality.


#674

Reminds me of George Carlins bit about prayer. Like, when God doesn’t do what you ask people say, well it was part of his plan. Then why did you bother praying in the first place if he was just going to do what he was going to do haha


#675

As my mother used to say, “a closed mouth don’t get fed.”

You gotta ask for that which you want…lol


#676

If there is no potential and no evil at all then you cant make a choice. Doesnt sound like free will to me.


#677

Gimme dat superbowl lord


#678

You’re gonna make me sound like I’m defending it, and I’m not inherently…

But why do you not do evil things in your life?

When you answer that question, you will be able to approximate how believers see choice in Heaven. By my estimation, its not a question of a lack of choice, its just that you will be drawn to the good choice.


#679

Yes I know your playing devils advocate.

But again, we are all capable of choosing evil. Lying. Bad thoughts. Beyond evil choices we all still suffer. Anxiety. Hunger. Natural disaster. Disease. There is no clear answer on this for heaven. Its basically saying that heaven is a place where everything good there everything bad not. If we are capable if choosing evil in heaven, then it begs the question why not just make heaven and be done with it. Otherwise, the only logical conclusion is that God created a big hunger games episode


#680

You can spin it as the “we need to learn angle”. But that ignores all the death and suffering of infants. Or say some kid who was kidnapped and tortured then murdered. What the ■■■■ is that


#681

The statements in Daniel have no bearing that God knew anyone’s thoughts and actions before they were born. Next, the Book for Daniel is apocalyptic literature, and apocalyptic literature was designed to comfort and strengthen the faithful in times of stress. In our own day, people can read “the handwriting on the wall” if people continue to act as they are.

Daniel believes that God is in charge, and that His plan will be carried out despite the turmoil going on in the land of man at any given time.