You’re basically saying that the rules are clear except God didnt make them. Yes. A sign that says quicksand is clear. Did the maker of the sign also make the quicksand? Are we quicksand? All of these analogies make no sense. Why not address the question DIRECTLY? Why did God make us inherently sinners, and setup an environment in which we are tempted to fail, instead if just making us not sinful? Why did God create the quicksand in the first place?
This entire thread has been asking about the Bible and the questions in the context of the Bible. People here are asking how sin and the devil is rationalized in the Bible and in others beliefs. Nobody is talking about math. These analogies just obfuscate the questions and dodge from the answers.
Our muscles arent God. Our family isnt God. We are talking about GOD
I find it very interesting that atheists spend so much time and energy on something/someone they don’t believe in.
I don’t believe in love, it doesn’t exist. What color is it? How big is it? Where can it be found? I cannot see it, smell it or touch it. Therefore it does not exist.
If you believe love exists, prove it.
Sounds like an atheist talking about God
This is stupid. I believe in 4, it exists. But What color is it? How big is it? Where can it be found? I cannot see it, smell it or touch it. Therefore it does not exist?
If you believe 4 exists, prove it.
“4”, like “love” are not physical. They describe something or help define a state of being. You’re just playing word games.
Yes that’s the talking point. Maybe we find it interesting? What’s wrong with trying to understand others beliefs and debating those beliefs? Just another Christian here treating atheists like fleas…I say again, if you want an echo chamber and you dont want atheists here just say it.
Why do you guys ALWAYS resort to silly analogies instead of directly answering questions?
You’re right. Like love, God is just an emotion / brain chemicals, and doesnt exist outside of your brain, hormones, and emotions. It’s an emotional reaction to the struggles of this world and the holes in our knowledge.
Muhammad is like love. You just feel it. Muhammad is the true prophet. You can’t prove me wrong. Praise Allah. If you dont agree then obviously you havent studied the Koran enough. It takes years. You need to study arabic. You’ve definitely not put in the effort - praying 5 times a day, travelling to Mecca, and participating in Ramadan. Have you ever experienced Allah? Give it a try! An honest try! Trust me.
Several days ago AZSlim noted he wanted to understand how believers think.
Atheists: Don’t believe in a God who murders babies with a flood.
Believers: Neither do we.
Atheists: Don’t believe in a God who dictates rules, then throws people into a fire when they disobey.
Believers: Neither do we.
Atheists: Don’t believe in a God who makes everything murky and unclear.
Believers: Neither do we.
One of the reasons atheists may spend time in a Religion Forum is that they don’t seem to get why people don’t see their construct of God as God.
* The precepts of the Lord bring joy to the heart.
* The Lord is kind and merciful.
* Love one another as I have loved you.
It’s funny because many believers do. Which is why it is so murky and unclear. The notion that your beliefs in this thread have been consistent, clear, and structured is simply wrong. Maybe Christians here should take a look in the mirror for once instead of preaching to us like we are 5 year olds in Sunday school. Its quite rude.
And yet the bible is full of God being vengeful, jealous, murderous and tempting. But let me guess, those are the things we should ignore?
Facts dont lie @Meriweather
MANY believers believe in Hell. So why not just agree with atheists that those who believe in hell are wrong in their understanding? Instead of preaching to us like fleas?
Maybe the Earth is hell. We certainly have enough pain and suffering.
The earth also has a lot of love and joy, so a bit of heaven as well.
Hi Meri. I think you have to recognize that your interpretation of God is pretty different than the majority’s here in the US. I doubt your “neither do we” responses would be shared by many.
I would agree that it is different from some Protestant interpretations…but it is definitely not different from that in the Catholic community. I know of no Catholic who believes God is a murderer, a being who assigns someone to hell the instant they break a Commandment. God redeems, and the way of redemption is clear, not murky.
What is true is that there is more we do not know and understand about God than the little we perceive. We learn that His ways are as far apart from our ways as the heavens are from the earth. And that is quite a distance.
Right. So, MANY people do not share your beliefs on this subject. And like you said, “What is true is that there is more we do not know and understand about God than the little we perceive.”. So, adding in the beliefs of all non Christians Buddhists, muslims, etc) - the question is a good question: why did God make things so murky and unclear? How do those that believe God is all loving, believe in a hell? Why did God create us knowing we would sin? These are good questions and shouldnt be met with smugness or scorn, or only in the context of your beliefs.
I doubt any Protestants think God is a murderer either. It doesn’t change an objective reading of the Bible coming to that conclusion.
Well, I appreciate your conjecture here.
I wasn’t going to touch this thread with a 10 foot pole, but I found an 11 foot one, so we are good to go.
There is nothing in the Bible that explains why the Devil wasn’t just killed so we wouldn’t have had to deal with all the problems his being around has caused. Some thoughts that have been floated as to why:
There are scriptures that point to spirits being eternal. As the Devil is a spirit, he may not be able to be killed.
As love, as it is currently defined in the universe we live in, requires a choice, allowing an active accuser/deceiver to roam around would provide people ample opportunities to show love.
We’ve already been told the Devil will be cast into the lake of fire. Wouldn’t God then be in a bind as his recorded word didn’t match his deed?