God and the Devil


#442

Ah, but the word of God is within those stories. That does not mean that God wrote them, dictated them, or that they are literally true.

As you do not believe in God, how can you be expected to discern His word, wherever it might be found?


#443

He created ALL of the evil within me.

As the story goes, he created you and knew who you would be and what you would be the instant he created you. That being what it is, it means he knew that the evil within you was GOING to exist.

How that could be any other way is beyond me.


#444

Whose story is this? Which Bible passage are you referencing?


#445

I don’t, but I have to hand it to you, you have made it easier than most of to take the Bible to mean anything you want it to.


#446

Shrug. Actually it took years of studying, not just the Bible, but the cultures and histories in which it was written. For the Old Testament, it took long reading and studying of rabbinical commentaries that have been available for centuries.

Keep in mind that with the advent of Protestants came the idea that everyone can read the Bible and decide for themselves what it says. You (and other atheists) took this news to heart, read, and came to the conclusion that the Bible describes God as an evil being. Then you tell me that it is I that takes the Bible to mean anything I want it to mean. :rofl:

I started out with what I know for a fact about God–that He loves us and cares deeply about us. Don’t you think that in the beginning I mused about whether this comes through in Genesis and Exodus? Instead of reading the two books and jumping to my own conclusion that God either must really be evil or that the authors did not know what they were talking about, I studied. Amazing how things fall into place when one is willing to step outside oneself, one’s own language, and one’s own culture.

I expect your response will be, “Shouldn’t God have made it clearer so that no one has to spend decades researching and studying?” My reply: It is clear to those willing to dedicate the time and energy. And in the end? I recommend getting one’s head out of the stories and instead pursue one’s own relationship with God. The story is much more interesting when it is about you and God–not someone else and God.


#447

Jeremiah 1:5 - Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

That about cover it?


#448

Interesting topic, God and the devil. It’s more like “I’m an atheist and I can convince you to be one too”. Sorry, doesn’t work on me.


#449

Do you have any ideas about why God would create a Devil just to torment us and then not do anything about it?


#450

So you started with a conclusion and searched the Bible and rabbinical work for evidence that reinforced your conclusion.

Sounds like a great path to understanding. Wonder why science doesn’t use that?


#451

What exactly does that mean? It’s always thrown around


#452

Again, what does that even mean? God didnt write the bible. They are just stories that man made. But they were inspired by God and are the word of God. But you cant take them literally. Very very confusing.


#453

It’s more like, atheists and a Christian debating and discussing a topic.


#454

Sorry but this sounds like a cop out. The bible is so confusing, obscure, and contradictory in nature, you need to study it for 30 years just to make sense of it? Have you studied the Koran for decades? You probably should because the Koran is the true word of God. And trust me, if you dont believe me, it’s because you havent studied the Koran as much as me.


#455

It covers what we know about Jeremiah. I don’t see anything about you or me, or anyone else. :wink:

The other part it does not cover is how many the Lord ordained or called–but did not answer. Unless, of course, you believe Jeremiah had no free will in the matter, but was simply a puppet. Jesus, himself seems to contradict this when he says he lays down his own life freely.


#456

One of the reasons it doesn’t work on many is the assertion of what they believe God and the devil “really” are, I guess believing that the rest of us are in alignment with their particular creations. The fact that they disbelieve their own creations should give them a clue as to why no one else believes them either.


#457

Once again, please cite scripture (or any source) that states God created a devil just to torment us.


#458

No, I did not start with a conclusion. What makes you conclude that I did?


#459

Did I misinterpret you here?


#460

Not gonna lie…this is the first time I have come across anyone who interprets it that way.

The standard interpretation of that verse is that he was speaking to a group, as that book is a recollection of the conversation according to Jerimiah, and unless you are going to try to parse it out that he was only speaking for that particular group, the implication was of the royal “you” and not a personal “you”. That would mean the statement was true for each person present, and by extension, everyone, unless, again, you are trying to imply that it was only meant for those present at the time.

As to the secondary part of the verse…you ask a good question, but not even for the reason you might think. Ther first part is pretty evident if you follow standard belief on the meaning of the passage. With that being what it is (that God knows each of us before he creates us), the answer to your question regarding who was ordained and who responded becomes interesting. The way I see it, the question isnt one of how many were ordained or not, as again, the standard wisdom is that the first part applied to everyone, but one of why there are so many he would allow not to respond simply so he could eternally punish them later?


#461

Lucifer was not originally creates as an adversary but took the role of trying to turn people from the path of righteousness when he failed in his attempt at over throwing God and was cast out.

Instead of the usual back and forth until we get to the final question of why to which there is no answer, I will just jump to what I think is the end of this rabbit hole. (Please correct me if I am wrong.)

Ultimately, there is no final answer to the question as to why God set up the universe in the way that he did.
For whatever reason, the universe is driven by causality, and with everything else that we can observe, we have been told there is also the sacred and the profane. According to the Bible, our ability to walk the path of righteousness and embrace the sacred is determined by having a right relationship with God and a right relationship with each other.

Keep asking questions while you can. At some point you will be told it is time to poop or get off the pot.