Global warming pfft part 2

[Samm]

@zantax

@Samm

@zantax

@westaussie

Most people do not want to live underground apart from people in Coober Pedy and similar places.

Lots of people want to live on the space station, pretty intense competition to win a spot, best and the brightest. I mean I think they are a bit daft given the radiation but they remain. I don’t like an international flight extra radiation exposure.

There is no comparison between a short stay of a few months on the space station a hundred miles from Earth and living in a cave on Mars more than a years journey from home.

There will be plenty of volunteers. Again, not something I would sign up for, but there will be.

Of course there will be volunteers. But that doesn’t mean it will be a pleasant experience, or even one for which the volunteers can change their minds.

[Samm]

@zantax

@Borgia_dude

@zantax

@Borgia_dude

@SixFoot

@Borgia_dude

For height variation, that would be evolution, so a change in gravity might effect height over time or generations, right?

Environment.

Are you sure? Am thinking height is driven by DNA. People are tall in Denmark, for instance. Doubtful if a Chinese family moved there they would have tall offspring.

Astronauts on the space station typically get two inches taller.

Yes, but that is due to the lack of force on them. Come back to Earth and…they shrink back, right?

This is like saying someone stretched out on the rack gets taller. It sure doesn’t effect their DNA, does it?

Only one way to find out and I was surprised we haven’t done it yet. raise some animals in low G, mice on the space station, might have to spin them up to moon gravity and mars gravity and see what happens. I would expect less dense bone for sure, longer bones, no way to tell.

That has already been done. Astronauts on the space station already perform bone stressing exercises to reduce the loss of bone density.

[SixFoot]

I love the idea of being a multiplanet civilization as much as anyone else, but the troubles are there, and it won’t be that easy. Everything about our bodies and the processes that make them happen are dependent upon the gravity we live under.

As someone mentioned before, medicine will have to play a big role in this. Until then, Martians will be very different from Earthers, and won’t be able to visit the mother planet.

It’s not as though we haven’t tried to sort it out. Mice, rats, salamanders, frogs, fish, and plants have been the subjects of experiments looking at how spaceflight affects reproduction. To put it simply, though, the results so far are mixed and inconclusive.

“All of our big tech gurus out there who want us to be a multiplanet civilization—this is a key question that no one has answered yet,” says Baylor College of Medicine physician Kris Lehnhardt, who specializes in space medicine.

…

On Earth, evolutionary processes are fine-tuned to work in an environment characterized by one of our planet’s most basic forces: gravity. In space, gravity is essentially nonexistent, and on Mars it’s about 38 percent the strength of Earth’s downward pull. So far, no one has even come close to figuring out how a partial gravity environment could affect mammalian reproduction.

…

In mice, the story is similarly complicated. Research suggests that the two rodent species respond differently to changes in gravity. Two-cell mouse embryos sent into space aboard the shuttle Columbia failed to develop further, even as Earth-based controls matured normally. Later, work in simulated microgravity (achieved using a rotating piece of machinery called a clinostat) showed that while in vitro fertilization could occur normally, microgravity-cultured embryos transferred to female mice failed to implant and develop at normal rates.

Can humans have babies on Mars? It may be harder than you think.

[FloridaYankee]

@Samm

@FloridaYankee

@Samm

@FloridaYankee

@zantax

@FloridaYankee

atoms in the planet Jupiter to reach the equivilent of light speed with a warp drive, or warp 1. If we had the right kind of exotic matter.

Seems relatively simple to live underground. Humans are pretty good at mining. The radiation problem is getting there and back, not living there.

Oh and getting heavy machinery there to do the mining. Well within our capability though. As long as we can solve the trip radiation problem and there is water we should be good.

Plenty of iron there to make machinery with. Solar energy too, for small batch smelting.

Which comes first, the smelter or the steel?

A small smelter first.

How did you obtain the ore?

No ore, straight iron oxide right from the soil gathered with neodymium magnets.

[zantax]

@Samm

@SixFoot

@Samm

@SixFoot

Our bone density depends on the amount of gravity we experience day to day. The first kids to be born and raised on that planet will be very tall with very thin bones.

Bone growth yes, but I seriously doubt it would make an appreciable difference in height.

Gravity has everything to do with how tall a species gets, just as much as how dense their bones get.

Not in one generation … or even ten. Genetics and nutrition still dominate.

Disagree, I would expect a taller human raised in lesser g, but only by an inch or two, due to less spinal compression. Coupled with less bone density. Which is stimulated by stressors.

[Samm]

@FloridaYankee

@Samm

@FloridaYankee

@Samm

@FloridaYankee

@zantax

@FloridaYankee

atoms in the planet Jupiter to reach the equivilent of light speed with a warp drive, or warp 1. If we had the right kind of exotic matter.

Seems relatively simple to live underground. Humans are pretty good at mining. The radiation problem is getting there and back, not living there.

Oh and getting heavy machinery there to do the mining. Well within our capability though. As long as we can solve the trip radiation problem and there is water we should be good.

Plenty of iron there to make machinery with. Solar energy too, for small batch smelting.

Which comes first, the smelter or the steel?

A small smelter first.

How did you obtain the ore?

No ore, straight iron oxide right from the soil gathered with neodymium magnets.

Sure …

[Samm]

@zantax

@Samm

@SixFoot

@Samm

@SixFoot

Our bone density depends on the amount of gravity we experience day to day. The first kids to be born and raised on that planet will be very tall with very thin bones.

Bone growth yes, but I seriously doubt it would make an appreciable difference in height.

Gravity has everything to do with how tall a species gets, just as much as how dense their bones get.

Not in one generation … or even ten. Genetics and nutrition still dominate.

Disagree, I would expect a taller human raised in lesser g, but only by an inch or two, due to less spinal compression. Coupled with less bone density. Which is stimulated by stressors.

Lesser gravity won’t make the bones longer, it makes them lighter.

[hwyflier]

@zantax

Disagree, I would expect a taller human raised in lesser g, but only by an inch or two, due to less spinal compression. Coupled with less bone density. Which is stimulated by stressors.

From The Expanse, which also took this view.:

Belter

[Samm]

Yes. Works of fiction are where a lot of misconceptions come from.

[zantax]

@Samm

Yes. Works of fiction are where a lot of misconceptions come from.

You haven’t shown anything that supports longer bone growth. Because it doesn’t exist, I looked. On the other hand, limited data.

[Samm]

I think you misstated that … I’m not the one who is saying that lower gravity makes for longer bones.

Its all in the physiology of mammals. What about reducing the stress on bone due to less gravity would make them grow longer than their predestined genetic code says they will? Reducing stress on growing bone makes it less dense, not longer. If less stress made bones longer, people who never work or exercise as a child would be taller than those who do. There is no indication that that has any effect whatsoever on how tall or short a person will become as they grow up.

[zantax]

glad we can agree, it makes me happy, in a micro sense, yep IPA kicking in

[FloridaYankee]

@Samm

@FloridaYankee

@Samm

@FloridaYankee

@Samm

@FloridaYankee

@zantax

@FloridaYankee

atoms in the planet Jupiter to reach the equivilent of light speed with a warp drive, or warp 1. If we had the right kind of exotic matter.

Seems relatively simple to live underground. Humans are pretty good at mining. The radiation problem is getting there and back, not living there.

Oh and getting heavy machinery there to do the mining. Well within our capability though. As long as we can solve the trip radiation problem and there is water we should be good.

Plenty of iron there to make machinery with. Solar energy too, for small batch smelting.

Which comes first, the smelter or the steel?

A small smelter first.

How did you obtain the ore?

No ore, straight iron oxide right from the soil gathered with neodymium magnets.

Sure …

Why do you think it’s red?

[Paul_Thomson]

@Borgia_dude

Isn’t your height encoded into your DNA? That was my point.

Chinese have been getting taller since consuming more milk.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202011/11/WS5fab1b7ca31024ad0ba93438.html%23:~:text%3DThe%2520Lancet%2520report%2520offers%2520no,boosts%2520bone%2520growth%252C%2520promoting%2520height.%26text%3DAccording%2520to%2520official%2520data%252C%2520the,lower%2520than%2520in%2520developed%2520countries.&ved=2ahUKEwihy5OMwqzwAhUFiOYKHRuqDlMQFjABegQIAxAF&usg=AOvVaw1IZ1RAFbZhI4exRO28MByo

[Borgia_dude]

@Paul_Thomson

@Borgia_dude

Isn’t your height encoded into your DNA? That was my point.

Chinese have been getting taller since consuming more milk.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202011/11/WS5fab1b7ca31024ad0ba93438.html%23:~:text%3DThe%2520Lancet%2520report%2520offers%2520no,boosts%2520bone%2520growth%252C%2520promoting%2520height.%26text%3DAccording%2520to%2520official%2520data%252C%2520the,lower%2520than%2520in%2520developed%2520countries.&ved=2ahUKEwihy5OMwqzwAhUFiOYKHRuqDlMQFjABegQIAxAF&usg=AOvVaw1IZ1RAFbZhI4exRO28MByo

Is anyone surprised? Nutrition has been a big part of body size forever.

[Samm]

@FloridaYankee

@Samm

@FloridaYankee

@Samm

@FloridaYankee

@Samm

@FloridaYankee

@zantax

@FloridaYankee

atoms in the planet Jupiter to reach the equivilent of light speed with a warp drive, or warp 1. If we had the right kind of exotic matter.

Seems relatively simple to live underground. Humans are pretty good at mining. The radiation problem is getting there and back, not living there.

Oh and getting heavy machinery there to do the mining. Well within our capability though. As long as we can solve the trip radiation problem and there is water we should be good.

Plenty of iron there to make machinery with. Solar energy too, for small batch smelting.

Which comes first, the smelter or the steel?

A small smelter first.

How did you obtain the ore?

No ore, straight iron oxide right from the soil gathered with neodymium magnets.

Sure …

Why do you think it’s red?

Oxidation. That doesn’t mean you can just dump the soil into a refinery and pour out steel.

[FloridaYankee]

@Samm

@FloridaYankee

@Samm

@FloridaYankee

@Samm

@FloridaYankee

@Samm

@FloridaYankee

@zantax

@FloridaYankee

atoms in the planet Jupiter to reach the equivilent of light speed with a warp drive, or warp 1. If we had the right kind of exotic matter.

Seems relatively simple to live underground. Humans are pretty good at mining. The radiation problem is getting there and back, not living there.

Oh and getting heavy machinery there to do the mining. Well within our capability though. As long as we can solve the trip radiation problem and there is water we should be good.

Plenty of iron there to make machinery with. Solar energy too, for small batch smelting.

Which comes first, the smelter or the steel?

A small smelter first.

How did you obtain the ore?

No ore, straight iron oxide right from the soil gathered with neodymium magnets.

Sure …

Why do you think it’s red?

Oxidation. That doesn’t mean you can just dump the soil into a refinery and pour out steel.

Didn’t say you could.

[Samm]

So … not practical?

[FloridaYankee]

@Samm

So … not practical?

Doable. There is carbon there from previous volcanic activity that can be used in a smelting process to seperate the oxygen from the oxide and to make carbon steel.

[Samm]

As if gathering up those resources and making steel was so simple on Mars …