Global warming is real


#2691

Yes, it is required to you to be able to make this statement. This relates to the idea of a null hypothesis.

In order to make this claim you need to know that we have been able observe a perturbation in our orbit. If any such alteration of our orbit were so tiny that it was below our ability to detect, then there would be no difference between what we calculated and observed even though such a perturbation did happen and did not magically revert to some “normal”.

Now, obviously we have only been able to measure highly accurately in the last 100 years. I dare say that these ancient observatories (its 75,000 years now, this number keeps getting bigger, last time it was 40,000, just where do you think we’ve been able to document our planetary orbit that long ago) had far less sensitivity to detect small changes.

Now supposedly you think we’ve observed such a change but can’t seem to think of any examples. Makes me wonder if you are just making it up.


#2692

No where have I stated that we have observed or measured such perturbations.

Physics however tells us unequivocally that they occur whether or not we even notice them.

Again, an honest argument on your part would be such a refreshing and wonderful change. I’ve learned not to expect it, but it would still be none the less if you ever attempted same.


#2693

You just did.

Now, please don’t accuse me of being dishonest. I can only go by what you post.

This claim is essential to your argument that the orbit somehow corrects itself.


#2694

Again, something occurred 4 billion years ago in a very different type of environment.

That sort of large mass objects are no longer flying around the solar system precisely due to collisions like the one that created the moon.

I’m not here to talk about everything that’s “possible” because there’s no end to it. It’s possible aliens built a huge mirror which warmed the planet for millions of years before it as removed. Can anyone here say it’s not possible?


#2695

We can observe that an NEO is passing us, whether we can perceive or measure it’s effects are irrelevant, the math tells us it affects our orbit.


#2696

They don’t have to still be floating around or system, Object from intestellar space enter and pass through our system.

We have no way of knowing what long period objects of great size and mass orbit our sun because we haven’t been around long enough to record them. All we can do is record their appearances in the future and calculate their orbits based on observations made at that time.

We’ve been over all of this multiple times, perhaps you need to take notes so you can keep up because obviously your memory is failing.


#2697

Wildrose, the question wasn’t whether we have observed the NEO, the question was whether we’ve observed an alteration in our orbit. It was extremely specifically worded because you kept dodging it.

Do I have to ask it again with the same exact wording?


#2698

what part of this answer is it you can’t understand. Be very specific.

whether we can perceive or measure it’s effects are irrelevant, the math tells us it affects our orbit.


#2699

Thanks sweet Jesus this has all been cleared up.

Finally we’re all on the same team.

So what are we going to do about it?


#2700

What exactly is it in this answer you cannot understand? Which of the words are you struggling with?

Are you just gonig to keep moving the bar and changing the question until you think you’ve scored some sort of victory when I don’t give the same answer?

No and none is required.

We know the objects pass us, we know their gravity affects our orbit, yet we also know that in spite of them we can document back as far as 75,000 years that our orbit has remained relatively stably throughout the long term.

The only way that is possible is that after those objects pass us we return eventually to the same predicable, observed, orbital cycle.

We can document even more accurately recent history, and predict our position accurately at any point in the future absent some new force changing the equilibrium of the entire system.


#2701

Is that the ONLY possibility? Or, is it possible that the NEOs that have occurred in the last 75k years have effected our orbit below the detectable limit?

Or is it possible that the sum total of the 75k years of NEOs effect on our orbit is below the detectable limit?


#2702

No technology existed until the last few hundred years to even detect any variation in our orbit.

No matter how much effect any of them have had, we remain on the same predictable orbital cycle and have for as long as man has been building observatories and aligning monuments with the solstices and constellations. Even today those alignments remain accurate.


#2703

I understand it just fine.

The problem is it is not an answer to the question I posed. It’s an excuse to attempt to not answer the question and it’s also a tacit admission (I think) that your claim is bogus.


#2704

Your question was answered multiple times as demonstrated. keep trying to spin your way out there Top.


#2705

It was answered.

Then it was contradicted.

I’m just trying to figure out which answer is the real one.

Please try to maintain some with your posts. It’s impossoble to have a discussion without it.


#2706

Oh yippee you win the internet.

Whether we observe it or not is irrelevant if we can’t perceive the perturbations.

We can observe the passing of an NEO whther we can do either of the others.


#2707

It’s absolutely relevant to your belief that we somehow have evidence our orbit has “corrected”.

If we can’t perceive a difference in our orbit from a NEO, then we can’t perceive whether it has “corrected”.

If null hypothesis cannot be disproven and your claim can’t be supported.


#2708

You’re back in the same hole again and need to get some new material.

One more time, whether or not man could perceive or measure the effect, we know that we have returned to the same predictable orbital pattern after each NEO that has every been observed. and we can show it through hard data both in the past, and with future predictions.

Once again, we know that every object that interacts with us gravitation ally has some effect on our orbit, the math proves it happens in every case as you admitted until again, it didn’t support the argument you keep trying to make.

Once again, an honest discussion of fact would be a welcomed relief for a change.


#2709

Yeah and you keep hiding from the second part of your argument, which I’ve been trying to steer you back up u successfully, that our orbit returns to some sort of “normal”.

It would take some honesty from you to recognize that you are refusing to address this despite me very clearly paying out the discrepancy in your argument. A discrepancy you tried to cover up with shifting claims.


#2710

I’m not hiding from anything, we do return to the same predictable pattern if we didn’t the ancient alignments would not be accurate today and they remain so.