Giuliani owes the Georgia Poll Workers

[DOLOOP]

@TheDoctorIsIn

@Samm

What drivel (speaking of histrionics … ) $75 million dollars each will make them far more than whole.

They’re never going to see anything close to $75 million.

@Samm

Heck, a million dollars each would push them far over the top of where they ever expected to be.

But that is not how these damages are calculated - and you don’t get a say in what it takes to make them whole.

That’s the jury’s job, which they did.

Lot of folks seem resentful of the way things get done in America, even the Georgia part of America.

[tnt]

@Samm

Quite your whining. The Properties made a profit whether the SS and Saudi businessmen stayed in them or not. Trump himself was no longer on the payrol.

He owned them. They made money from his presidential duties, therefor, he made money…

What a weird thing to argue.

And no, there is no guarantee that trump would have filled the rooms and rented the carts otherwise. If you aren’t aware, quite a few of his business ventures have failed, and in fact, he sold the DC hotel because it wasn’t filling up later in his term.

[Mountain_Soldier]

@Publius

@Mountain_Soldier

@TheDoctorIsIn

@Mountain_Soldier

That’s holding him accountable… dying on the street?

No, the verdit against him was “holding him accountable.”

But don’t worry - Giuliani will keep his luxury apartment, and the people he injured will never be made fully whole. You can stop the histrionics - the bad guy you support will never really be held accountable.

What would “making them fully whole” entail? That seems rather subjective.

If what happened to them happened to you, what would you consider sufficient to make you whole? And keep in mind much of the damages were punitive, not designed to make the plaintiff whole, but to punish the offender and send a message to those who might try to do the same thing. Deterrence theory.

Ok, so harsh jail sentences are cool now… right? Deterrence and all.

[tnt]

@Mountain_Soldier

@Publius

If what happened to them happened to you, what would you consider sufficient to make you whole? And keep in mind much of the damages were punitive, not designed to make the plaintiff whole, but to punish the offender and send a message to those who might try to do the same thing. Deterrence theory.

Ok, so harsh jail sentences are cool now… right? Deterrence and all.

What do you think should happen to Giuliani? He stipulated that he slandered the poll workers, so that’s not in question.

What do you think the punishment, if anything, should be?

[Publius]

@Mountain_Soldier

@Publius

@Mountain_Soldier

@TheDoctorIsIn

@Mountain_Soldier

That’s holding him accountable… dying on the street?

No, the verdit against him was “holding him accountable.”

But don’t worry - Giuliani will keep his luxury apartment, and the people he injured will never be made fully whole. You can stop the histrionics - the bad guy you support will never really be held accountable.

What would “making them fully whole” entail? That seems rather subjective.

If what happened to them happened to you, what would you consider sufficient to make you whole? And keep in mind much of the damages were punitive, not designed to make the plaintiff whole, but to punish the offender and send a message to those who might try to do the same thing. Deterrence theory.

Ok, so harsh jail sentences are cool now… right? Deterrence and all.

There’s no jail in civil cases. The jury decided what was appropriate. You DO believe in the American jury system, right?

[Mountain_Soldier]

@tnt

@Mountain_Soldier

@Publius

If what happened to them happened to you, what would you consider sufficient to make you whole? And keep in mind much of the damages were punitive, not designed to make the plaintiff whole, but to punish the offender and send a message to those who might try to do the same thing. Deterrence theory.

Ok, so harsh jail sentences are cool now… right? Deterrence and all.

What do you think should happen to Giuliani? He stipulated that he slandered the poll workers, so that’s not in question.

What do you think the punishment, if anything, should be?

I don’t know… I thought the whole trend was forgiveness and lightening of sentences… is that no longer true? We should be implementing much harsher prison sentences for deterrence?

[Mountain_Soldier]

@Publius

@Mountain_Soldier

@Publius

@Mountain_Soldier

@TheDoctorIsIn

@Mountain_Soldier

That’s holding him accountable… dying on the street?

No, the verdit against him was “holding him accountable.”

But don’t worry - Giuliani will keep his luxury apartment, and the people he injured will never be made fully whole. You can stop the histrionics - the bad guy you support will never really be held accountable.

What would “making them fully whole” entail? That seems rather subjective.

If what happened to them happened to you, what would you consider sufficient to make you whole? And keep in mind much of the damages were punitive, not designed to make the plaintiff whole, but to punish the offender and send a message to those who might try to do the same thing. Deterrence theory.

Ok, so harsh jail sentences are cool now… right? Deterrence and all.

There’s no jail in civil cases. The jury decided what was appropriate. You DO believe in the American jury system, right?

As much as you believe in three strikes and harsh penalties for criminal acts. Fair?

[Publius]

@Mountain_Soldier

@Publius

@Mountain_Soldier

@Publius

@Mountain_Soldier

@TheDoctorIsIn

@Mountain_Soldier

That’s holding him accountable… dying on the street?

No, the verdit against him was “holding him accountable.”

But don’t worry - Giuliani will keep his luxury apartment, and the people he injured will never be made fully whole. You can stop the histrionics - the bad guy you support will never really be held accountable.

What would “making them fully whole” entail? That seems rather subjective.

If what happened to them happened to you, what would you consider sufficient to make you whole? And keep in mind much of the damages were punitive, not designed to make the plaintiff whole, but to punish the offender and send a message to those who might try to do the same thing. Deterrence theory.

Ok, so harsh jail sentences are cool now… right? Deterrence and all.

There’s no jail in civil cases. The jury decided what was appropriate. You DO believe in the American jury system, right?

As much as you believe in three strikes and harsh penalties for criminal acts. Fair?

I’m OK with that.

[DOLOOP]

@Mountain_Soldier

@Publius

@Mountain_Soldier

@TheDoctorIsIn

@Mountain_Soldier

That’s holding him accountable… dying on the street?

No, the verdit against him was “holding him accountable.”

But don’t worry - Giuliani will keep his luxury apartment, and the people he injured will never be made fully whole. You can stop the histrionics - the bad guy you support will never really be held accountable.

What would “making them fully whole” entail? That seems rather subjective.

If what happened to them happened to you, what would you consider sufficient to make you whole? And keep in mind much of the damages were punitive, not designed to make the plaintiff whole, but to punish the offender and send a message to those who might try to do the same thing. Deterrence theory.

Ok, so harsh jail sentences are cool now… right? Deterrence and all.

Absolutely.

Looks like they’re suing him again. Because he continues to defame them.

The lesson seems to be when the offender isn’t deterred that, in our system, you’l likely get into court again.

He’s already a recidivist. Y’all should be proud.

[Mountain_Soldier]

@DOLOOP

@Mountain_Soldier

@Publius

@Mountain_Soldier

@TheDoctorIsIn

@Mountain_Soldier

That’s holding him accountable… dying on the street?

No, the verdit against him was “holding him accountable.”

But don’t worry - Giuliani will keep his luxury apartment, and the people he injured will never be made fully whole. You can stop the histrionics - the bad guy you support will never really be held accountable.

What would “making them fully whole” entail? That seems rather subjective.

If what happened to them happened to you, what would you consider sufficient to make you whole? And keep in mind much of the damages were punitive, not designed to make the plaintiff whole, but to punish the offender and send a message to those who might try to do the same thing. Deterrence theory.

Ok, so harsh jail sentences are cool now… right? Deterrence and all.

Absolutely.

Looks like they’re suing him again. Because he continues to defame them.

The lesson seems to be when the offender isn’t deterred that, in our system, you’l likely get into court again.

He’s already a recidivist. Y’all should be proud.

I’m good with that. So I guess we’ll stop seeing all these prison sentence reforms from the left in the name of deterrence then?

[LucyLou]

@Mountain_Soldier

@tnt

@Mountain_Soldier

@Publius

If what happened to them happened to you, what would you consider sufficient to make you whole? And keep in mind much of the damages were punitive, not designed to make the plaintiff whole, but to punish the offender and send a message to those who might try to do the same thing. Deterrence theory.

Ok, so harsh jail sentences are cool now… right? Deterrence and all.

What do you think should happen to Giuliani? He stipulated that he slandered the poll workers, so that’s not in question.

What do you think the punishment, if anything, should be?

I don’t know… I thought the whole trend was forgiveness and lightening of sentences… is that no longer true? We should be implementing much harsher prison sentences for deterrence?

There’s no prison in civil law.

[Mountain_Soldier]

@LucyLou

@Mountain_Soldier

@tnt

@Mountain_Soldier

@Publius

If what happened to them happened to you, what would you consider sufficient to make you whole? And keep in mind much of the damages were punitive, not designed to make the plaintiff whole, but to punish the offender and send a message to those who might try to do the same thing. Deterrence theory.

Ok, so harsh jail sentences are cool now… right? Deterrence and all.

What do you think should happen to Giuliani? He stipulated that he slandered the poll workers, so that’s not in question.

What do you think the punishment, if anything, should be?

I don’t know… I thought the whole trend was forgiveness and lightening of sentences… is that no longer true? We should be implementing much harsher prison sentences for deterrence?

There’s no prison in civil law.

I know that… but harsh sentences for offenders in the name of deterrence deserves to be a thing, correct? Like I’m being told here?

[LucyLou]

@Mountain_Soldier

As much as you believe in three strikes and harsh penalties for criminal acts. Fair?

Government isn’t imposing punishments in civil cases. It’s person vs person for damages only.

[tnt]

@Mountain_Soldier

I don’t know… I thought the whole trend was forgiveness and lightening of sentences… is that no longer true? We should be implementing much harsher prison sentences for deterrence?

If you want to lay games instead of answering a question, I could ask you the reverse - what happened to throwing the book at people, at returning to harsh punishment to lower crime?

Instead you’re upset that someone who slandered poll worker is getting punished.

[tnt]

@Mountain_Soldier

I’m good with that. So I guess we’ll stop seeing all these prison sentence reforms from the left in the name of deterrence then?

I’m not aware of any studies done on civil penalties and their effect on recidivism, are you?

I’m also not aware of any large vocal efforts to lower civil awards, are you?

Civil penalties and criminal sentences are totally different.

And FWIW, I think 150M is too high. I think 10M each after fees in compensation, and another 25M in punitive seems closer to fair to me. But I wasn’t in the courtroom…

[tnt]

@Mountain_Soldier

I know that… but harsh sentences for offenders in the name of deterrence deserves to be a thing, correct? Like I’m being told here?

What do you think a fair award would be?

[Mountain_Soldier]

@tnt

@Mountain_Soldier

I know that… but harsh sentences for offenders in the name of deterrence deserves to be a thing, correct? Like I’m being told here?

What do you think a fair award would be?

I don’t know, attorney fees, maybe a couple or few years of their salary… they weren’t fired or anything.

[Samm]

@TheDoctorIsIn

@Samm

What drivel (speaking of histrionics … ) $75 million dollars each will make them far more than whole.

They’re never going to see anything close to $75 million.

@Samm

Heck, a million dollars each would push them far over the top of where they ever expected to be.

But that is not how these damages are calculated - and you don’t get a say in what it takes to make them whole.

That’s the jury’s job, which they did.

Why are you trying to argue points with me that I have already agreed with?

[Samm]

@DOLOOP

@Samm

@DOLOOP

@Samm

@TheDoctorIsIn

@Mountain_Soldier

When he sells that apartment he won’t be able to afford to live, much less have a dwelling. He’ll be put on the streets.

As much as he deserves to be thrown out on the streets, he won’t be.

There is no need for this embarassing defense of Giuliani on your part.

Just as there is no need for the embarrassing celebration and glee over his downfall.

And one has to wonder, why does what he did to these two women make him deserve to be thrown out on the street? What real harm did they incure?

That information is actually available in the judgement against him and was covered yet again in the trial to determine damages if you are interested. Otherwise, no wondering needed at all.

C’mon man. We know what he accused them of and we know what they went through as a result. But where is the permanent damage? Throwing someone out on the street is a pretty damned severe punishment for slander, even if third parties believed the slander and acted badly in response. Any way you look at it, these women are coming out of this experience better off than when they went in. So why toss the schmuck out on the street?

I get it that you don’t think he should be kicked to the curb or thrown on the street for the excecrable things that he did to those women. And coming out of a civil trial better off than you were before someone torted the hell out of you is a common occurence.

Jury disagrees. So sorry. Russia’s a good place that doesn’t have these “problems.”

No they didn’t. The jury did not consider his ability to pay nor did they say he should be kicked to the curb. They came up with a number and agreed to that. Period.

[Samm]

@Publius

@Samm

@tnt

@Samm

So far as I know, Trump is the only President in modern times who did not increase his personal wealth while in office. He also is not known for his ass-kissing. I think I’ll stick with my “crass, brash, hyperbole slinging, narcissistic egotist” description … and perhaps add on “name calling bully.

Remember when the Suadi’s rented 500 rooms in Trump hotels right after the 2016 election?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/saudi-funded-lobbyist-paid-for-500-rooms-at-trumps-hotel-after-2016-election/2018/12/05/29603a64-f417-11e8-bc79-68604ed88993_story.html

Remember when trump charged the Secret Service $700K for a trip to visit his scottish golf club?

Secret Service incurred more than $950,000 in expenses for Trump stay at his Scotland resort - CBS News

There are more…

Yes, the Secret Service incurs expenses wherever the President goes regardless of who is President. Do not remember all hubbub regarding the exorbitant expenses they had just accompanying Michele on her solo trips when Obama was President?

And if Trump actually profited from people tied to him staying in Trump accommodations, the Media would have been all over it. Do you not remember that he stepped away from control and compensation related to the Trump corporation when he became President?

You mean those stacks of folders filled with blank paper?

Different subject. Different thread. Unless you think that it was paper from the mint and he was printing his own compensation. If so, you should start a thread about it. Should be fun.