Gee I thought the ACA Was Supposed to Help the Needy

Nemesis · 2019-10-16T11:43:58.615Z

DMK:

gooddad409:

I dare say most of those supporting the single payer system are paying little to no income taxes.

To their benefit at someone else’s expense.

Of course it is.

Now, what about those of us who put money aside (rather than getting tattoos or whatever discretionary income was spent on) so if a medical emergency came up we could pay our way?

Dont forget those flat screen TVs, and how dare they ever consider wanting access to the internet let a phone.

I went to the ER and the total charge for a fee hours was just shy of $20k. Even with insurance I owed a hefty $2k. Tell me who has $20k just sitting there in case of an emergency.

For most people after paying their bills, putting money in a 401k, paying for their kids to do extra curricular activities there is not a lot left over.

I ■■■■■■■ detest the attitude that people should somehow just exist in life and have nothing but work and toil.

DMK · 2019-10-16T11:46:10.910Z

Nemesis:

I ■■■■■■■ detest the attitude that people should somehow just exist in life and have nothing but work and toil.

I detest more the attitude that people should have to pay for others who make poor decisions through their work and toil.

Tommy-Englander · 2019-10-16T11:48:57.681Z

In Britain you can opt for private treatment if you like,I wouldn’t because of the price of it.

I’ve grown up with our health system and I wouldn’t swap it for the American model,it’s far too expensive

DMK · 2019-10-16T11:49:05.127Z

Forcefield:

Take responsibility for yourself, yes. Judge others, not a pretty look. You don’t know this person’s story. Stop acting like you’re a better person because you have different circumstances.

Who said I always had better circumstances? Who is the one judging others?

Smyrna · 2019-10-16T11:55:37.486Z

Nemesis:

I ■■■■■■■ detest the attitude that people should somehow just exist in life and have nothing but work and toil.

Nope…that isn’t it at all. Let’s examine life, in a very simple manner…shall we? You have 24 hours in a day…7 days a week. In all 7, you get 8 hours of sleep and 8 hours to do as you please. In 5 of those days, you work and toil for 8 hours each…giving your very best efforts to yourself, those that depend on you and your country. Do you actually “detest” this attitude?

Forcefield · 2019-10-16T12:58:52.067Z

Smyrna:

I agree with you but…this is a discussion board and that’s what we do here…discuss. You can judge…that I’m judging by me not being silent about all of those expensive tattoos covering her body, when she has medical bills and two children to care for but let’s also not be ignorant of any factors that are present in this case, we are discussing. Placing the needs of those two children ahead of your wants should be a basic premise of a mother and father…period.

You don’t know that she paid a dime for those tattoos.

highroller · 2019-10-16T13:00:35.116Z

That’s a fair point.

Smyrna · 2019-10-16T13:02:32.336Z

Forcefield:

You don’t know that she paid a dime for those tattoos.

That’s true…but logic dictates they weren’t free and applying that logic, I stand by what I said.

highroller · 2019-10-16T13:07:03.619Z

I’m pretty sure that’s circular reasoning…

Forcefield · 2019-10-16T14:33:17.478Z

Smyrna:

That’s true…but logic dictates they weren’t free and applying that logic, I stand by what I said.

I just outlined above a situation where someone didn’t pay for their tattoos. The point here is that people’s lives are complicated and situations vary and standing back and wagging your finger in judgement is a ■■■■■■ way to be. It’s a slippery slope and could be applied to anyone in any situation. I know it feels good to think you’re a better person because you aren’t in their situation, but it’s not true.

Smyrna · 2019-10-16T14:39:06.065Z

Forcefield:

I just outlined above a situation where someone didn’t pay for their tattoos. The point here is that people’s lives are complicated and situations vary and standing back and wagging your finger in judgement is a ■■■■■■ way to be. It’s a slippery slope and could be applied to anyone in any situation. I know it feels good to think you’re a better person because you aren’t in their situation, but it’s not true.

Could not the same argument be made that standing back, ignoring what you observe and not taking that into consideration is ignorant? Again remember…this is a discussion forum. If it was real life, I’d ask the individual questions and get the answers to better help my judgement call regarding anything I’m being asked to make a decision on.

Forcefield · 2019-10-16T14:42:38.318Z

Smyrna:

Could not the same argument be made that standing back, ignoring what you observe and not taking that into consideration is ignorant? Again remember…this is a discussion forum. If it was real life, I’d ask the individual questions and get the answers to better help my judgement call regarding anything I’m being asked to make a decision on.

Can we discuss the actual issue? That healthcare is a problem in this country? And not everyone who maybe has trouble procuring it for their families is in this predicament because they own a color tv or at some point in their life spent 850$ on tattoos? It’s ignorant to completely sidestep the actual issue that is harming millions of American families and finding reasons to ignore it that center on blaming everything but the system.

Smyrna · 2019-10-16T14:46:21.965Z

Forcefield:

Can we discuss the actual issue? That healthcare is a problem in this country? And not everyone who maybe has trouble procuring it for their families is in this predicament because they own a color tv or at some point in their life spent 850$ on tattoos? It’s ignorant to completely sidestep the actual issue that is harming millions of American families and finding reasons to ignore it that center on blaming everything but the system.

There is a problem with our healthcare industry in that the cost is too high. This problem has many facets to it that involve lawyers, insurance companies and factors that don’t actually improve the service but do drive up the costs. These factors should be addressed and IMO it would involve tort reform. I’d like to see it addressed. What I don’t want, are the contributing factors that are driving up costs to be ignored and the expense of insurance to then be placed on the backs of tax payers…and then let’s call it a day.

daha · 2019-10-16T14:55:03.790Z

highroller:

It’s really odd how I never hear people in those countries complaining about it. I guess when you sign up at the hospital they take away your internet privileges.

People here complain about health care all the time. However (this is purely anecdotal of course), in the past two years I, or people I was financially responsible for, would have been on the hook for hundreds of thousands in hospital bills in the US, but not here. For example, my father was in ICU for nearly a month, for which we paid… $35 for the ambulance that picked him up from the house. Average cost of ICU care is approx 4000 per day, so appox 120000 for the total. All covered by single payer.

For this, the tax I pay is less per year than the average US health insurance is for three months (it caps at 900 if you make over 200k per year, average US individual plan is approx 400 per month). There are plenty of things to complain about (yes there are sometimes long waits for example, although this is exaggerated somewhat by opponents of the system). However, some of these would not affect the US - we sometimes have long waits because the nature of single payer means doctors can make more south of the border so we lose talent there - if the US went single payer that wouldn’t be an issue as doctors would have nowhere else to go.

Nemesis · 2019-10-16T15:23:15.418Z

Tommy-Englander:

In Britain you can opt for private treatment if you like,I wouldn’t because of the price of it.

I’ve grown up with our health system and I wouldn’t swap it for the American model,it’s far too expensive

I have to agree with you. Neither system is perfect and both sides spout propoganda about the other.

The medical care I have received back home and in the US is the same but the sheer cost of health care services in the US is out of control.

No one in the Uk goes bankrupt for medical bills and thats the biggest driver of bankruptcies in the US.

But as you can see from this thread there is a train of thought that expects you to be able to plan for every eventuality in life and if you can lay your hands on 10 or 20k then your a loser who has made poor choices.

Nemesis · 2019-10-16T15:28:56.873Z

Smyrna:

Forcefield:

Can we discuss the actual issue? That healthcare is a problem in this country? And not everyone who maybe has trouble procuring it for their families is in this predicament because they own a color tv or at some point in their life spent 850$ on tattoos? It’s ignorant to completely sidestep the actual issue that is harming millions of American families and finding reasons to ignore it that center on blaming everything but the system.

There is a problem with our healthcare industry in that the cost is too high. This problem has many facets to it that involve lawyers, insurance companies and factors that don’t actually improve the service but do drive up the costs. These factors should be addressed and IMO it would involve tort reform. I’d like to see it addressed. What I don’t want, are the contributing factors that are driving up costs to be ignored and the expense of insurance to then be placed on the backs of tax payers…and then let’s call it a day.

Insurance companies are actually working to drive down the cost. Take the recent innovations in provider reimbursement. I have been involved in a pilot that reimburses providers based on quality of care not the traditional fee for service.

Other areas of innovation is looking at the traditional delivery methods and disrupting these. Past few consultations i have had have been video chat with a $50 cost. Far more cost effective than an office visit. And yes I know video chat is not always suitable.

Educating customers to use urgent health care and retail clinics instead of the ER. We now provide details on Explanation of Benefits that gives alternatives to the treatment you had and provides a dollar amount you could have saved.

But I think we can both agree that providers have to be more transparent. Health Care is the only service we consume where we do not have access to costs up front. Can you imagine going to the supermarket where nothing is priced?

Smyrna · 2019-10-16T15:31:29.169Z

Nemesis:

Insurance companies are actually working to drive down the cost. Take the recent innovations in provider reimbursement. I have been involved in a pilot that reimburses providers based on quality of care not the traditional fee for service.

Other areas of innovation is looking at the traditional delivery methods and disrupting these. Past few consultations i have had have been video chat with a $50 cost. Far more cost effective than an office visit. And yes I know video chat is not always suitable.

Educating customers to use urgent health care and retail clinics instead of the ER. We now provide details on Explanation of Benefits that gives alternatives to the treatment you had and provides a dollar amount you could have saved.

But I think we can both agree that providers have to be more transparent. Health Care is the only service we consume where we do not have access to costs up front. Can you imagine going to the supermarket where nothing is priced?

The biggest break through I found in reducing costs was a virtual visit. You use your phone and the doctor examines you, asks pertinent questions and diagnoses your condition right over the phone. They then call in a prescription and bam…it was a $35 dollar doctor’s visit plus the cost of your medicine.

Nemesis · 2019-10-16T15:58:16.617Z

Smyrna:

Nemesis:

Insurance companies are actually working to drive down the cost. Take the recent innovations in provider reimbursement. I have been involved in a pilot that reimburses providers based on quality of care not the traditional fee for service.

Other areas of innovation is looking at the traditional delivery methods and disrupting these. Past few consultations i have had have been video chat with a $50 cost. Far more cost effective than an office visit. And yes I know video chat is not always suitable.

Educating customers to use urgent health care and retail clinics instead of the ER. We now provide details on Explanation of Benefits that gives alternatives to the treatment you had and provides a dollar amount you could have saved.

But I think we can both agree that providers have to be more transparent. Health Care is the only service we consume where we do not have access to costs up front. Can you imagine going to the supermarket where nothing is priced?

The biggest break through I found in reducing costs was a virtual visit. You use your phone and the doctor examines you, asks pertinent questions and diagnoses your condition right over the phone. They then call in a prescription and bam…it was a $35 dollar doctor’s visit plus the cost of your medicine.

Exactly - We are experimenting with using fitness trackers to take all your vitals and pass these electronically to your virtual doctor.

Apple watches can do EKGs now!

What I like about virtual doctor visits is the convenience. I needed an allergy RX, had a consult at 5am, doctor sent my RX to the pharmacy and on my way into work picked It up.

Oldandtired · 2019-10-17T02:55:19.162Z

The seventy GOP amendments were just window dressings. They had nothing to do with the meat of the bill.
I remember that the GOP were locked out of any discussion on writing of the bill.
I remember Obama’s I won you lost sit down and shut up I’m running the show now.
I remember Nancy’s we have to pass it before you can read it.
I went to several town hall meetings in my state when the bill was being written. I remember the crap that the dem senator from my state tried to feed us. He did not want to hear what we wanted. According to him we were supposed to sit there and listen to him tell us what we wanted. To bad that he sold out to the leftist and lost his job the next election.
I remember that the leftist used every dirty trick they could come up with to get this piece of crap passed. Bribes and deemed it passed when they no longer had enough votes.
What happened to the Dems saying well so what that this was not a bipartisan bill. We’re proud of what we came up with. This bill is great and we’re willingly accept all responsibility.
Now what are the leftist doing. That’s right they are trying to blame the ACA on the right. Eat your pea’s you all passed a crappy bill with no support from the right. Not one single GOP vote. You passed it along party lines you own it.

H_Arendt · 2019-10-17T10:39:21.879Z

Oldandtired:

The seventy GOP amendments were just window dressings. They had nothing to do with the meat of the bill.
I remember that the GOP were locked out of any discussion on writing of the bill.
I remember Obama’s I won you lost sit down and shut up I’m running the show now.
I remember Nancy’s we have to pass it before you can read it.
I went to several town hall meetings in my state when the bill was being written. I remember the crap that the dem senator from my state tried to feed us. He did not want to hear what we wanted. According to him we were supposed to sit there and listen to him tell us what we wanted. To bad that he sold out to the leftist and lost his job the next election.
I remember that the leftist used every dirty trick they could come up with to get this piece of crap passed. Bribes and deemed it passed when they no longer had enough votes.
What happened to the Dems saying well so what that this was not a bipartisan bill. We’re proud of what we came up with. This bill is great and we’re willingly accept all responsibility.
Now what are the leftist doing. That’s right they are trying to blame the ACA on the right. Eat your pea’s you all passed a crappy bill with no support from the right. Not one single GOP vote. You passed it along party lines you own it.

You have summarized right wing talking points over the past ten years. You remember them well.

Returning to the world of facts: Republicans added dozens of changes to the bill. When the Republicans put their repeal bill on the floor, no Democratic. amendments ere allowed.

Anyone not up to their eyeballs in propaganda can see the difference.