Gee I thought the ACA Was Supposed to Help the Needy

highroller · 2019-10-16T13:00:35.116Z

That’s a fair point.

Smyrna · 2019-10-16T13:02:32.336Z

Forcefield:

You don’t know that she paid a dime for those tattoos.

That’s true…but logic dictates they weren’t free and applying that logic, I stand by what I said.

highroller · 2019-10-16T13:07:03.619Z

I’m pretty sure that’s circular reasoning…

Forcefield · 2019-10-16T14:33:17.478Z

Smyrna:

That’s true…but logic dictates they weren’t free and applying that logic, I stand by what I said.

I just outlined above a situation where someone didn’t pay for their tattoos. The point here is that people’s lives are complicated and situations vary and standing back and wagging your finger in judgement is a ■■■■■■ way to be. It’s a slippery slope and could be applied to anyone in any situation. I know it feels good to think you’re a better person because you aren’t in their situation, but it’s not true.

Smyrna · 2019-10-16T14:39:06.065Z

Forcefield:

I just outlined above a situation where someone didn’t pay for their tattoos. The point here is that people’s lives are complicated and situations vary and standing back and wagging your finger in judgement is a ■■■■■■ way to be. It’s a slippery slope and could be applied to anyone in any situation. I know it feels good to think you’re a better person because you aren’t in their situation, but it’s not true.

Could not the same argument be made that standing back, ignoring what you observe and not taking that into consideration is ignorant? Again remember…this is a discussion forum. If it was real life, I’d ask the individual questions and get the answers to better help my judgement call regarding anything I’m being asked to make a decision on.

Forcefield · 2019-10-16T14:42:38.318Z

Smyrna:

Could not the same argument be made that standing back, ignoring what you observe and not taking that into consideration is ignorant? Again remember…this is a discussion forum. If it was real life, I’d ask the individual questions and get the answers to better help my judgement call regarding anything I’m being asked to make a decision on.

Can we discuss the actual issue? That healthcare is a problem in this country? And not everyone who maybe has trouble procuring it for their families is in this predicament because they own a color tv or at some point in their life spent 850$ on tattoos? It’s ignorant to completely sidestep the actual issue that is harming millions of American families and finding reasons to ignore it that center on blaming everything but the system.

Smyrna · 2019-10-16T14:46:21.965Z

Forcefield:

Can we discuss the actual issue? That healthcare is a problem in this country? And not everyone who maybe has trouble procuring it for their families is in this predicament because they own a color tv or at some point in their life spent 850$ on tattoos? It’s ignorant to completely sidestep the actual issue that is harming millions of American families and finding reasons to ignore it that center on blaming everything but the system.

There is a problem with our healthcare industry in that the cost is too high. This problem has many facets to it that involve lawyers, insurance companies and factors that don’t actually improve the service but do drive up the costs. These factors should be addressed and IMO it would involve tort reform. I’d like to see it addressed. What I don’t want, are the contributing factors that are driving up costs to be ignored and the expense of insurance to then be placed on the backs of tax payers…and then let’s call it a day.

daha · 2019-10-16T14:55:03.790Z

highroller:

It’s really odd how I never hear people in those countries complaining about it. I guess when you sign up at the hospital they take away your internet privileges.

People here complain about health care all the time. However (this is purely anecdotal of course), in the past two years I, or people I was financially responsible for, would have been on the hook for hundreds of thousands in hospital bills in the US, but not here. For example, my father was in ICU for nearly a month, for which we paid… $35 for the ambulance that picked him up from the house. Average cost of ICU care is approx 4000 per day, so appox 120000 for the total. All covered by single payer.

For this, the tax I pay is less per year than the average US health insurance is for three months (it caps at 900 if you make over 200k per year, average US individual plan is approx 400 per month). There are plenty of things to complain about (yes there are sometimes long waits for example, although this is exaggerated somewhat by opponents of the system). However, some of these would not affect the US - we sometimes have long waits because the nature of single payer means doctors can make more south of the border so we lose talent there - if the US went single payer that wouldn’t be an issue as doctors would have nowhere else to go.

Nemesis · 2019-10-16T15:23:15.418Z

Tommy-Englander:

In Britain you can opt for private treatment if you like,I wouldn’t because of the price of it.

I’ve grown up with our health system and I wouldn’t swap it for the American model,it’s far too expensive

I have to agree with you. Neither system is perfect and both sides spout propoganda about the other.

The medical care I have received back home and in the US is the same but the sheer cost of health care services in the US is out of control.

No one in the Uk goes bankrupt for medical bills and thats the biggest driver of bankruptcies in the US.

But as you can see from this thread there is a train of thought that expects you to be able to plan for every eventuality in life and if you can lay your hands on 10 or 20k then your a loser who has made poor choices.

Nemesis · 2019-10-16T15:28:56.873Z

Smyrna:

Forcefield:

Can we discuss the actual issue? That healthcare is a problem in this country? And not everyone who maybe has trouble procuring it for their families is in this predicament because they own a color tv or at some point in their life spent 850$ on tattoos? It’s ignorant to completely sidestep the actual issue that is harming millions of American families and finding reasons to ignore it that center on blaming everything but the system.

There is a problem with our healthcare industry in that the cost is too high. This problem has many facets to it that involve lawyers, insurance companies and factors that don’t actually improve the service but do drive up the costs. These factors should be addressed and IMO it would involve tort reform. I’d like to see it addressed. What I don’t want, are the contributing factors that are driving up costs to be ignored and the expense of insurance to then be placed on the backs of tax payers…and then let’s call it a day.

Insurance companies are actually working to drive down the cost. Take the recent innovations in provider reimbursement. I have been involved in a pilot that reimburses providers based on quality of care not the traditional fee for service.

Other areas of innovation is looking at the traditional delivery methods and disrupting these. Past few consultations i have had have been video chat with a $50 cost. Far more cost effective than an office visit. And yes I know video chat is not always suitable.

Educating customers to use urgent health care and retail clinics instead of the ER. We now provide details on Explanation of Benefits that gives alternatives to the treatment you had and provides a dollar amount you could have saved.

But I think we can both agree that providers have to be more transparent. Health Care is the only service we consume where we do not have access to costs up front. Can you imagine going to the supermarket where nothing is priced?

Smyrna · 2019-10-16T15:31:29.169Z

Nemesis:

Insurance companies are actually working to drive down the cost. Take the recent innovations in provider reimbursement. I have been involved in a pilot that reimburses providers based on quality of care not the traditional fee for service.

Other areas of innovation is looking at the traditional delivery methods and disrupting these. Past few consultations i have had have been video chat with a $50 cost. Far more cost effective than an office visit. And yes I know video chat is not always suitable.

Educating customers to use urgent health care and retail clinics instead of the ER. We now provide details on Explanation of Benefits that gives alternatives to the treatment you had and provides a dollar amount you could have saved.

But I think we can both agree that providers have to be more transparent. Health Care is the only service we consume where we do not have access to costs up front. Can you imagine going to the supermarket where nothing is priced?

The biggest break through I found in reducing costs was a virtual visit. You use your phone and the doctor examines you, asks pertinent questions and diagnoses your condition right over the phone. They then call in a prescription and bam…it was a $35 dollar doctor’s visit plus the cost of your medicine.

Nemesis · 2019-10-16T15:58:16.617Z

Smyrna:

Nemesis:

Insurance companies are actually working to drive down the cost. Take the recent innovations in provider reimbursement. I have been involved in a pilot that reimburses providers based on quality of care not the traditional fee for service.

Other areas of innovation is looking at the traditional delivery methods and disrupting these. Past few consultations i have had have been video chat with a $50 cost. Far more cost effective than an office visit. And yes I know video chat is not always suitable.

Educating customers to use urgent health care and retail clinics instead of the ER. We now provide details on Explanation of Benefits that gives alternatives to the treatment you had and provides a dollar amount you could have saved.

But I think we can both agree that providers have to be more transparent. Health Care is the only service we consume where we do not have access to costs up front. Can you imagine going to the supermarket where nothing is priced?

The biggest break through I found in reducing costs was a virtual visit. You use your phone and the doctor examines you, asks pertinent questions and diagnoses your condition right over the phone. They then call in a prescription and bam…it was a $35 dollar doctor’s visit plus the cost of your medicine.

Exactly - We are experimenting with using fitness trackers to take all your vitals and pass these electronically to your virtual doctor.

Apple watches can do EKGs now!

What I like about virtual doctor visits is the convenience. I needed an allergy RX, had a consult at 5am, doctor sent my RX to the pharmacy and on my way into work picked It up.

Oldandtired · 2019-10-17T02:55:19.162Z

The seventy GOP amendments were just window dressings. They had nothing to do with the meat of the bill.
I remember that the GOP were locked out of any discussion on writing of the bill.
I remember Obama’s I won you lost sit down and shut up I’m running the show now.
I remember Nancy’s we have to pass it before you can read it.
I went to several town hall meetings in my state when the bill was being written. I remember the crap that the dem senator from my state tried to feed us. He did not want to hear what we wanted. According to him we were supposed to sit there and listen to him tell us what we wanted. To bad that he sold out to the leftist and lost his job the next election.
I remember that the leftist used every dirty trick they could come up with to get this piece of crap passed. Bribes and deemed it passed when they no longer had enough votes.
What happened to the Dems saying well so what that this was not a bipartisan bill. We’re proud of what we came up with. This bill is great and we’re willingly accept all responsibility.
Now what are the leftist doing. That’s right they are trying to blame the ACA on the right. Eat your pea’s you all passed a crappy bill with no support from the right. Not one single GOP vote. You passed it along party lines you own it.

H_Arendt · 2019-10-17T10:39:21.879Z

Oldandtired:

The seventy GOP amendments were just window dressings. They had nothing to do with the meat of the bill.
I remember that the GOP were locked out of any discussion on writing of the bill.
I remember Obama’s I won you lost sit down and shut up I’m running the show now.
I remember Nancy’s we have to pass it before you can read it.
I went to several town hall meetings in my state when the bill was being written. I remember the crap that the dem senator from my state tried to feed us. He did not want to hear what we wanted. According to him we were supposed to sit there and listen to him tell us what we wanted. To bad that he sold out to the leftist and lost his job the next election.
I remember that the leftist used every dirty trick they could come up with to get this piece of crap passed. Bribes and deemed it passed when they no longer had enough votes.
What happened to the Dems saying well so what that this was not a bipartisan bill. We’re proud of what we came up with. This bill is great and we’re willingly accept all responsibility.
Now what are the leftist doing. That’s right they are trying to blame the ACA on the right. Eat your pea’s you all passed a crappy bill with no support from the right. Not one single GOP vote. You passed it along party lines you own it.

You have summarized right wing talking points over the past ten years. You remember them well.

Returning to the world of facts: Republicans added dozens of changes to the bill. When the Republicans put their repeal bill on the floor, no Democratic. amendments ere allowed.

Anyone not up to their eyeballs in propaganda can see the difference.

Oldandtired · 2019-10-17T19:44:57.080Z

You know the left wing propaganda well. Spin, spin spin. And I know that you are up to your eyeballs in propaganda because you spew it so well. Does the left send you emails on what the latest left wing talking points are? Because you seem to know them all.
Now lets return to the world of facts. How active were you when this bill was passed? Did you spend anytime in DC letting your congressman and senators know how you felt about the bill? I did. Did you spend any time at town hall meetings and listen to the lies they were pushing? I did. And I called them out on their lies. Did you spend any time contacting fellow voters and letting them know they needed to call their congressman and let them know how they felt about the lies being pushed? I did.
I know what went down. The leftist passed this bill all on their own. They did not want GOP help in crafting the bill. They used every dirty trick in the book to get it passed. They said they would be proud to own it. And that the right would be trying to take credit for the bill in a couple of years.
Now look what’s happening the leftist want to push this bill on the GOP.

H_Arendt · 2019-10-17T19:48:57.828Z

Oldandtired:

You know the left wing propaganda well. Spin, spin spin. And I know that you are up to your eyeballs in propaganda because you spew it so well. Does the left send you emails on what the latest left wing talking points are? Because you seem to know them all.
Now lets return to the world of facts. How active were you when this bill was passed? Did you spend anytime in DC letting your congressman and senators know how you felt about the bill? I did. Did you spend any time at town hall meetings and listen to the lies they were pushing? I did. And I called them out on their lies. Did you spend any time contacting fellow voters and letting them know they needed to call their congressman and let them know how they felt about the lies being pushed? I did.
I know what went down. The leftist passed this bill all on their own. They did not want GOP help in crafting the bill. They used every dirty trick in the book to get it passed. They said they would be proud to own it. And that the right would be trying to take credit for the bill in a couple of years.
Now look what’s happening the leftist want to push this bill on the GOP.

All you are proving is that you opposed ACA from the beginning.

To return to the world of facts, you do recognize that this mixed system of private and government insurance was the Heritage Foundation proposal for healthcare. The Heritage Foundation is a conservative organization.

How do we know ACA was the conservative solution.

Liberals keep pushing to replace it with a liberal solution – Medicare for All
Conservatives have no proposal to replace ACA

Ergo: ACA implements the conservative solution.

Oldandtired · 2019-10-17T20:01:15.146Z

There is no pushing this piece of crap on the GOP.
This bill is a leftist bill. The left wanted it. They used bribes and dirty deeds to pass it. That they couldn’t get the blue dogs on board is not the fault of the GOP. But you don’t have to worry any more about the blue dogs they are gone and the far left is in total control.
There was no GOP input into the actual bill.
Who cares where the bill came from. Did the GOP bring the bill to the floor and vote on it?
Be proud and own this bill that you all wanted. It’s all yours.
And just to get the facts straight the ACA was not a conservative solution. It was all the left could get their blue dogs to agree to. But keep up with all the fairy tales that the left is spinning now that their bill is show to be a piece of crap. But those of us who were working to stop the bill know the facts.

H_Arendt · 2019-10-17T20:22:38.589Z

Oldandtired:

There is no pushing this piece of crap on the GOP.
This bill is a leftist bill. The left wanted it. They used bribes and dirty deeds to pass it. That they couldn’t get the blue dogs on board is not the fault of the GOP. But you don’t have to worry any more about the blue dogs they are gone and the far left is in total control.
There was no GOP input into the actual bill.
Who cares where the bill came from. Did the GOP bring the bill to the floor and vote on it?
Be proud and own this bill that you all wanted. It’s all yours.
And just to get the facts straight the ACA was not a conservative solution. It was all the left could get their blue dogs to agree to. But keep up with all the fairy tales that the left is spinning now that their bill is show to be a piece of crap. But those of us who were working to stop the bill know the facts.

Here is an article from Forbes “Capitalist Tool” that explains why I was right

Forbes

How the Heritage Foundation, a Conservative Think Tank, Promoted the...

Jim Taranto, who writes the Wall Street Journal’s excellent “Best of the Web” column, put forth a lengthy and informative discussion yesterday on the conservative origins of the individual mandate, whose inclusion in Obamacare is today its most...

Here’s an original Heritage Foundation proposal

The Heritage Foundation

Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans

(Archived document, may contain errors) Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans

You can be as angry as you want about ACA, but the facts would urge you to be a little more judicious.

And I repeat my fundamental question: If ACA did not implement the conservative solution for extending healthcare coverage in the US, where is the conservative solution? Why don’t conservatives have anything to put forward.

And the answer is because Barack Obama coopted the conservative position!

Samson_Corwell · 2019-10-18T00:10:16.887Z

gooddad409:

DMK:

BlueTex:

In a single payer system, none of these people would have received bills or be turned to a collection agency by the hospital that treated them.

And if you actually stroke a check every year to the government you can pay for it.

I dare say most of those supporting the single payer system are paying little to no income taxes.

To their benefit at someone else’s expense.

Question begging on ownership.

Samson_Corwell · 2019-10-18T00:12:38.995Z

DMK:

I am a conservative.

You misspelled “elitist”.