Full pardon for Flynn may be imminent

Ben_Natuf · 2020-11-28T16:34:55.919Z

and got no conviction.

please, provide an example of one single democrat facing these process crime charges in dc since then.

prosecutors know its a non-starter. no high profile democrat will ever be convicted of these process crimes by a dc jury.

good luck.

Borgia_dude · 2020-11-28T16:37:26.342Z

WuWei:

Borgia_dude:

Weird. You think my point relies on one example (when we all know that undercover cops lie all the time)? Do you really need an example?

Is it against the law to lie to an “undercover cop”? Even an FBI Agent?

I’ll help you - no it is not. Why? Because you can’t be charged with lying to cops unless you know they are cops.

Agreed. I’m not the one who brought up cops shouldn’t be able to lie.

We are not talking about “undercover”. You have digressed into irrelevancy.

The FBI was not “undercover” when they were questioning Flynn.

Ben said cops should not be able to lie which you echoed. I’m merely following up on that thought.

Should undercover cops be able to lie?

WuWei · 2020-11-28T16:38:52.662Z

Borgia_dude:

Agreed. I’m not the one who brought up cops shouldn’t be able to lie.

Look at it again.

Borgia_dude:

Ben said cops should not be able to lie which you echoed. I’m merely following up on that thought.

Should undercover cops be able to lie?

Only if we can lie to them. One set of rules.

Ben_Natuf · 2020-11-28T16:42:19.400Z

wrong. i said they lie to us and criminals lie to cops all the time. far as i know no-one has been charged with lying to cops (which is distinct and different that obstruction). the fbi is not “cops”. i do understand how it may have been taken that way, i should have clarified that. also, i an distinctly talking about under questioning when you know you are being questioned.

Borgia_dude · 2020-11-28T16:47:11.943Z

Ben_Natuf:

wrong. i said they lie to us and criminals lie to cops all the time. far as i know no-one has been charged with lying to cops (which is distinct and different that obstruction). the fbi is not “cops”. i do understand how it may have been taken that way, i should have clarified that. also, i an distinctly talking about under questioning when you know you are being questioned.

Ok, thanks for clarifying. I would agree you don’t need to help the authorities build their case and that is why you can refuse to speak. Lying under questioning is wrong, imo, and should be punishable.

Ben_Natuf · 2020-11-28T16:49:13.439Z

it should be for them too. so long as they can lie to you, lying back should not be illegal.

FreeAndClear · 2020-11-28T16:51:58.489Z

Ben_Natuf:

and got no conviction.

please, provide an example of one single democrat facing these process crime charges in dc since then.

prosecutors know its a non-starter. no high profile democrat will ever be convicted of these process crimes by a dc jury.

good luck.

I took the time to look some up. Found a bunch of Democrats indicted on federal charges. William Jefferson was the closest to dc but was in Virginia. I’ll keep looking but this all so very silly. Charges against democrats are brought all the time.

One of the biggest reasons why i am having issues finding them is because they are often brought where the process crime was committed.

WuWei · 2020-11-28T16:54:18.862Z

Borgia_dude:

Agreed. I’m not the one who brought up cops shouldn’t be able to lie.

You are the one who completely changed the context and constructed a new narrative by arguing to absurdity.

Borgia_dude:

Ben said cops should not be able to lie which you echoed. I’m merely following up on that thought.

Should undercover cops be able to lie?

Legalize marijuana or give fentynal in schools?

Is it illegal to lie to an undercover cops?

Ben_Natuf · 2020-11-28T16:54:24.028Z

you won’t find any in dc, which is where the charges would be bought. prosecutors know its a non-starter and career ender.

Borgia_dude · 2020-11-28T16:58:25.619Z

WuWei:

Borgia_dude:

Agreed. I’m not the one who brought up cops shouldn’t be able to lie.

You are the one who completely changed the context and constructed a new narrative by arguing to absurdity.

Imo, I saw a rather absurd lute statement and tested it.

Borgia_dude:

Ben said cops should not be able to lie which you echoed. I’m merely following up on that thought.

Should undercover cops be able to lie?

Legalize marijuana or give fentynal in schools?

Is it illegal to lie to an undercover cops?
[/quote]
No. Nor is illegal for undercover cops to lie to you. It seems you think they shouldn’t be able to. Regardless, it seems beyond the scope of the conversation here.

TommyLucchese · 2020-11-28T17:00:03.190Z

No one is discriminated against in American society except old conservative white guys, especially if they’re rich.

WuWei · 2020-11-28T17:01:56.137Z

Borgia_dude:

Imo, I saw a rather absurd lute statement and tested it.

Nah, you constructed a new narrative based on hate of a man.

By your own admission:

Regardless, it seems beyond the scope of the conversation here.

WuWei · 2020-11-28T17:03:25.176Z

TommyLucchese:

No one is discriminated against in American society except old conservative white guys, especially if they’re rich.

Great post. Thanks.

TommyLucchese · 2020-11-28T17:03:41.193Z

WuWei:

Great post. Thanks.

You’re welcome.

WuWei · 2020-11-28T17:15:53.445Z

TommyLucchese:

WuWei:

Great post. Thanks.

You’re welcome.

Always good to have the feminist point of view. Diversity is good.

WuWei · 2020-11-28T17:41:19.487Z

I wish you hadn’t done that.

SixFoot · 2020-11-28T17:42:52.555Z

Mod Note

Stay on topic, not on people’s user levels.

PurpnGold · 2020-11-28T17:44:05.192Z

TommyLucchese:

No one is discriminated against in American society except old conservative white guys, especially if they’re rich.

Quoted for truth

WuWei · 2020-11-28T17:48:18.534Z

PurpnGold:

TommyLucchese:

No one is discriminated against in American society except old conservative white guys, especially if they’re rich.

Quoted for truth

What’s true about it? All minorities are discriminated against. More so in democracies, one of the reasons a republic is better.

Are old, rich black guys discriminated against? How about old, rich white women?

I am a minority.

DougBH · 2020-11-29T18:35:07.875Z

Safiel:

Ben_Natuf:

don’t recall anywhere where it says a pardon can be refused

For that, we must go back to 1833.

United States v. Wilson :: 32 U.S. 150 (1833) :: Justia US Supreme Court Center

George Wilson was convicted of robbing the United States Mail and was sentenced to death. Upon the intervention of friends, he was pardoned on those charges carrying the death penalty.

George Wilson refused the pardon, declining to enter it into the court record. The Supreme Court ruled that as an Act of Grace, a pardon must be accepted and entered into the court record to have effect. The ruled that a defendant can refuse a pardon and can decline to enter it into the court record.

George Wilson was subsequently executed.

Flynn has that same choice. He may accept the pardon and confess guilt or he may reject the pardon and continue his legal fight in an attempt to gain exoneration.

Accept the pardon and free himself of legal jeopardy, but confesses his guilt by doing so.

Reject the pardon and remain in legal jeopardy, with the chance that he could exonerate himself.

That is the choice before Flynn.

The only guilt he would have to confess is that he lied to the FBI. He did that. Whatever the reason, that is an observable fact. Shame on him. I would see no reason not to confess that. At least in the sense that one justice in one opinion said such guilt was “imputed”.