Freedom Over Democracy

toreyj01 · 2024-04-19T20:09:12.806Z

I suppose that depends on what side you’re on. For Conservatives the minority rights seem important since Gerrymandering and the very makeup of the electoral college and the Senate heavily favor rural voters and thus, Conservatives. “Tyranny of the minority”, so to speak.

If you game the system, you never have to win an election to hold power here. Pretty neat system if you don’t have majority support of the voters.

But here is the thing, the minority takes these advantages and implements laws that severely restrict the rights of the majority. And when the majority attempts to use the power of their vote to fix these transgressions against them, they are called tyrants. Granted, a Republic is just a form of Democracy, but it is Democracy all the same.

In other words, if the game is slanted towards you and you still lose, that is on you, not on the disadvantaged players that still win. And that isn’t tyranny, that is you sucking at the game.

TheRedComet · 2024-04-19T20:11:21.553Z

But the alternative is objective tyranny of the majority. Urban areas should not dictate to the rural minority. The causes and concerns are totally different and incompatible.

Optrader · 2024-04-19T20:21:32.078Z

TheRedComet:

Well the French First Republic chose democracy over freedom and liberty and we all saw how that turned out.

I’ll take freedom please.

You meant " FWEEDOM" didn’t you?

toreyj01 · 2024-04-19T20:23:39.442Z

TheRedComet:

But the alternative is objective tyranny of the majority. Urban areas should not dictate to the rural minority. The causes and concerns are totally different and incompatible.

The thing is, no one is doing that to the rural folks. Rural folks have always benefitted from Urban voters. Electrification, water, internet are all available no matter how remote you live. Rural voters and citizens are romanticized and supported for the most part. And we could care less what you choose reproductively, who you choose to date or marry, how you choose to live or die, or what you ingest.

But for some reason, Rural folks in power have a lot to say about Urban people in these regards, and legislate accordingly. And if the Urban folks want to get out to vote, the Rural folks make it as hard as possible to vote to lower turnout. Urban/Blue States are largely donor states, while largely Rural states tend to take in more Federal funds than they contribute. But it is the Rural states who whine about paying for things (like child or health care) when they aren’t contributing any surplus funds.

The Rural states have had and will always have an outsized influence in this country, it is the way we are built. You guys can win and have won the Presidency multiple times without winning a majority of the votes. You have won supermajorities in state legislative bodies despite losing the popular vote in the state as well. Happens all the time.

You aren’t victims. You have been given every advantage and when you actually lose despite this, you cry about tyranny and Civil War. It is entitled and short sighted.

Respectfully,

TheRedComet · 2024-04-19T20:23:55.281Z

No. I call for actual freedom. No government. No oppressors. No elite. No inequality. Every man is a man and every woman is a woman.

TheRedComet · 2024-04-19T20:25:19.050Z

I’ve never called for civil war. I’m just terrified of the majority. Because I’m a racial and political minority.

And those urbanites sure do call to restrict my right to bear arms. Even though it doesn’t affect them.

toreyj01 · 2024-04-19T20:32:36.117Z

TheRedComet:

I’ve never called for civil war. I’m just terrified of the majority. Because I’m a racial and political minority.

And those urbanites sure do call to restrict my right to bear arms. Even though it doesn’t affect them.

No one wants your guns. It always comes down to that, doesn’t it? You have tens of thousands of people dying every year from guns. It is the leading cause of death of children in this country. Democrats wish to limit access to guns when it comes to criminals, illegals, insane people or stalkers. They want background checks to make sure weapon purchases are to folks who can safely use them and not the aforementioned. No confiscations needed. And it won’t happen, you and I know this because there is no middle ground here, Gun Lovers in this country are so driven that any compromise is impossible. So it becomes just a cost of being an American, in order for the gun lover to feel secure thousands die and that is just the way it is.

I get it. America offers many opportunities and one major disadvantage, you stand a decent chance of being shot and there isn’t much we can do about it.

toreyj01 · 2024-04-19T20:34:32.273Z

TheRedComet:

No. I call for actual freedom. No government. No oppressors. No elite. No inequality. Every man is a man and every woman is a woman.

That sort of idealism and detachment isn’t realistic though, is it? Is there any country in the world that can offer what you seek?

TheRedComet · 2024-04-19T20:35:23.329Z

No. Anarchism died with Bakunin and the defeat of the Socialist Revolutionaries in Russia.

But it is the only true freedom. Everything else is one group of self appointed elites trying to oppress someone.

WuWei · 2024-04-19T21:26:39.230Z

Interesting. Maybe “the game” isn’t slanted after all?

WuWei · 2024-04-19T21:28:00.836Z

I don’t agree with any of that. You ever been rural?

WuWei · 2024-04-19T21:28:55.564Z

toreyj01:

No one wants your guns.

That’s not true torey, and you know it. Stop.

WuWei · 2024-04-19T21:29:50.920Z

toreyj01:

TheRedComet:

No. I call for actual freedom. No government. No oppressors. No elite. No inequality. Every man is a man and every woman is a woman.

That sort of idealism and detachment isn’t realistic though, is it? Is there any country in the world that can offer what you seek?

Right, so you have to be content to getting as close as you can.

Optrader · 2024-04-19T23:30:13.116Z

toreyj01:

TheRedComet:

I’ve never called for civil war. I’m just terrified of the majority. Because I’m a racial and political minority.

And those urbanites sure do call to restrict my right to bear arms. Even though it doesn’t affect them.

No one wants your guns. It always comes down to that, doesn’t it? You have tens of thousands of people dying every year from guns. It is the leading cause of death of children in this country. Democrats wish to limit access to guns when it comes to criminals, illegals, insane people or stalkers. They want background checks to make sure weapon purchases are to folks who can safely use them and not the aforementioned. No confiscations needed. And it won’t happen, you and I know this because there is no middle ground here, Gun Lovers in this country are so driven that any compromise is impossible. So it becomes just a cost of being an American, in order for the gun lover to feel secure thousands die and that is just the way it is.

I get it. America offers many opportunities and one major disadvantage, you stand a decent chance of being shot and there isn’t much we can do about it.

“Democrats wish to limit access to guns when it comes to criminals, illegals, insane people or stalkers. They want background checks to make sure weapon purchases are to folks who can safely use them and not the aforementioned.”

What the what??? That’s just a really stupid statement. Maybe if Democrats would LOCK up criminals, DEPORT OR PREVENT illegals and COMMIT insane people to institutions a lot of the things you blame guns on wouldn’t be happening. And maybe, just maybe doing background checks on the millions of people Joe has flooded our country with BEFORE they come in would keep another 100 thousand Americans from dying of fentanyl overdoses. But hey, TENS OF THOUSANDS is a much bigger number than a HUNDRED THOUSAND, so let’s get our priorities straight!

EternalVigilance · 2024-04-20T01:35:57.243Z

toreyj01:

Democrats wish to limit access to guns when it comes to criminals, illegals, insane people or stalkers.

Not true about illegals. Progressive judges actually encourage them to carry, unlike actual citizens.

New York Post – 20 Mar 24

Illinois judge rules illegal migrants can carry guns

A federal judge in Illinois appointed under former President Omaba ruled that the Constitution protects the rights of noncitizens who enter the United States illegally after a Mexican immigrant liv…

WuWei · 2024-04-20T02:42:27.617Z

The judge is correct, I believe.

SixFoot · 2024-04-20T02:43:08.520Z

WuWei:

I don’t agree with any of that. You ever been rural?

Clearly not! The “water anywhere you go” bit gave it away.

WuWei · 2024-04-20T09:48:50.620Z

No critprogs?

komobu · 2024-04-20T10:01:36.444Z

toreyj01:

But here is the thing, the minority takes these advantages and implements laws that severely restrict the rights of the majority.

I would really like to understand your position. Could you please list some of these laws of the minority that are severely restricting the rights of the majority?

komobu · 2024-04-20T10:06:47.525Z

toreyj01:

It is the leading cause of death of children in this country. Democrats wish to limit access to guns when it comes to criminals, illegals, insane people or stalkers.

Not just dems. I want that too. The REAL problem is that the govt doesnt implement and enforce the laws they already have, so why should we allow them to implement new laws that they “A” will not follow, or “B” only selectively enforce?

We have a “Value” problem not a “gun” problem, due to what I believe is lack of parenting, our education system along with substance abuse with drugs and alcohol. If you can correct that, the gun death issue will take care of itself. If we dont, people will just change the tool used and you will still have just as many deaths. Guns were much more prevalent in the 50s and 60s, but no where near the deaths. Why? Because during that time, people valued their neighbors and their communities. Today we dont even know their names.