Francis Scott Key bridge collapse

Samm · 2024-09-15T23:36:31.379Z

Nemesis:

Roundabouts are far more effective at keeping the traffic flowing than stop signs plus they significantly reduce the number of vehicle collisions.

They also greatly reduce the severity of collisions when they do occur.

Samm · 2024-09-15T23:41:01.502Z

Toll_Collector:

What are they doing to circumvent the bridge now? Are people sitting in traffic somewhere?

I still can’t believe they didn’t get those maintenance workers off that bridge. You’d think it would be a simple call over the radio.

It is very possible that the only (if any at all) radio communication used by the workers was car to car. I think I read somewhere that the lone survivor said they had no radio communication with the authority that closed the bridge to traffic.

Samm · 2024-09-15T23:48:12.031Z

TheRedComet:

From what I’ve read (I went through a phase where I was obsessed with the history of American highways and road building) there used to be a ton of roundabouts in America before the interstates were developed starting in the 50s.

What America (primarily on the East Coast) had was traffic circles. Traffic circles are not roundabouts. Their design is fundamentally different. Traffic circles do not function well where there is even moderate traffic. They are basically a landscape architectural design and are only used today to slow traffic on residential streets.

Safiel · 2024-09-16T00:04:55.453Z

Florida Today

Viera roundabout crashes on the rise. But data shows it's safer than you...

While the dreaded Viera roundabout is bucking Brevard's traffic trends, studies show it might not be because it's more dangerous than traffic signals.

Roundabouts are great.

IF they are well designed.

But there are some, such as this infamous one in Viera, Florida, which I have had the displeasure of having to traverse, that are absolutely horrible.

Most roundabouts are at least decent, but some need a total redesign.

Samm · 2024-09-16T02:57:17.342Z

Safiel:

Viera roundabout sees most traffic accidents in Brevard, Florida

Roundabouts are great.

IF they are well designed.

But there are some, such as this infamous one in Viera, Florida, which I have had the displeasure of having to traverse, that are absolutely horrible.

Most roundabouts are at least decent, but some need a total redesign.

Most roundabout accidents happen for two reasons, excess speed and people too stupid to know they are supposed to yield to vehicles in the circle. The design is based on peak traffic count and the speed limit on primary route that goes through the intersection. They all are designed for drivers to reduce speed while in the intersection and are posted as such with yellow advisory speed signs.

RTchoke · 2024-09-16T03:04:20.719Z

Hardly ever had a collision at the T where they put a roundabout in place of the stoplight. They definitely have them now.

Samm · 2024-09-16T03:53:25.061Z

RTchoke:

Hardly ever had a collision at the T where they put a roundabout in place of the stoplight. They definitely have them now.

Yes, the number of accidents can go up when a roundabout first goes in, but the severity of accidents goes way down because the speed is lower and the vehicles are going in the same general direction. And accident rates at a new roundabout tend to fall after people get used to it.

Also, you may not be aware of all the accidents at any specific intersection. The design engineer has access to all reported accidents for as many years back as they care to look at (generally about ten years or back to the last significant change of configuration to that specific intersection and/or stretch of roadway.) That data includes both the type of accident (side swipe, head-on, t-bone, etc.) and the contributing factors (speed, DWI, darkness, weather, etc.) for consideration in demonstrating the need for the project and the design of the new intersection. They don’t just plop these things down out there on a whim.

RTchoke · 2024-09-16T03:58:39.987Z

OK, I guess I have no idea what’s going on here.

Toll_Collector · 2024-09-16T12:30:50.369Z

Samm:

Toll_Collector:

What are they doing to circumvent the bridge now? Are people sitting in traffic somewhere?

I still can’t believe they didn’t get those maintenance workers off that bridge. You’d think it would be a simple call over the radio.

It is very possible that the only (if any at all) radio communication used by the workers was car to car. I think I read somewhere that the lone survivor said they had no radio communication with the authority that closed the bridge to traffic.

I heard some chatter that suggested that. I just don’t understand it.

I worked road maintenance for 5 years. We could not access the police radio, but they could access ours. That’s how we communicated with them. If this was in the New Jersey/Penn. area, all it would take is one chirp of the radio, and we’d be gone. Any trooper could talk to me at will.

Bill.in.PA · 2024-09-16T12:40:25.886Z

Publius · 2024-09-16T16:41:48.014Z

Toll_Collector:

Samm:

Toll_Collector:

What are they doing to circumvent the bridge now? Are people sitting in traffic somewhere?

I still can’t believe they didn’t get those maintenance workers off that bridge. You’d think it would be a simple call over the radio.

It is very possible that the only (if any at all) radio communication used by the workers was car to car. I think I read somewhere that the lone survivor said they had no radio communication with the authority that closed the bridge to traffic.

I heard some chatter that suggested that. I just don’t understand it.

I worked road maintenance for 5 years. We could not access the police radio, but they could access ours. That’s how we communicated with them. If this was in the New Jersey/Penn. area, all it would take is one chirp of the radio, and we’d be gone. Any trooper could talk to me at will.

It was a total of about 4 minutes, at 1:30 a.m., between the ship having electrical power problems and hitting the bridge. There’d have to be a whole lot of comms going on in that short span for police to be made aware and to take action, while the crew on the ship were likely fully occupied trying to deal with the situation.

Toll_Collector · 2024-09-17T00:00:48.209Z

Publius:

Toll_Collector:

Samm:

Toll_Collector:

What are they doing to circumvent the bridge now? Are people sitting in traffic somewhere?

I still can’t believe they didn’t get those maintenance workers off that bridge. You’d think it would be a simple call over the radio.

It is very possible that the only (if any at all) radio communication used by the workers was car to car. I think I read somewhere that the lone survivor said they had no radio communication with the authority that closed the bridge to traffic.

I heard some chatter that suggested that. I just don’t understand it.

I worked road maintenance for 5 years. We could not access the police radio, but they could access ours. That’s how we communicated with them. If this was in the New Jersey/Penn. area, all it would take is one chirp of the radio, and we’d be gone. Any trooper could talk to me at will.

It was a total of about 4 minutes, at 1:30 a.m., between the ship having electrical power problems and hitting the bridge. There’d have to be a whole lot of comms going on in that short span for police to be made aware and to take action, while the crew on the ship were likely fully occupied trying to deal with the situation.

Yeah, I heard and saw video on it. The police managed to shut down the bridge just before the collapse. They mentioned the maintenance workers, but I guess they could not contact them over the radio.

Zander · 2024-09-17T00:13:35.516Z

SixFoot:

Nemesis:

Roundabouts are far more effective at keeping the traffic flowing than stop signs plus they significantly reduce the number of vehicle collisions.

There has never once been a collision at the intersection in my town that became a roundabout. Never once. We don’t even have a ■■■■■■■ post office here.

I was reading an article very recently about how our roads are x2 as deadly as most rich world countries. One of the main reasons? Not enough roundabouts.

I love roundabouts. I’ll give it a second whirl if it’s not too busy and the statue is cool. Why not. I’m here for it.

SixFoot · 2024-09-17T00:21:50.619Z

Roundabouts and Dollar Generals.

Safiel · 2024-09-17T02:52:25.164Z

Samm:

Safiel:

Viera roundabout sees most traffic accidents in Brevard, Florida

Roundabouts are great.

IF they are well designed.

But there are some, such as this infamous one in Viera, Florida, which I have had the displeasure of having to traverse, that are absolutely horrible.

Most roundabouts are at least decent, but some need a total redesign.

Most roundabout accidents happen for two reasons, excess speed and people too stupid to know they are supposed to yield to vehicles in the circle. The design is based on peak traffic count and the speed limit on primary route that goes through the intersection. They all are designed for drivers to reduce speed while in the intersection and are posted as such with yellow advisory speed signs.

But in some cases, roundabouts are poorly designed, often due to traffic engineers that don’t truly comprehend their purpose.

For example, this. The video poster demonstrates a correct version of a roundabout at the end. Video is just under one minute in length.

TheRedComet · 2024-09-17T03:02:32.733Z

The meth grows on trees!!!

Samm · 2024-09-17T04:19:06.725Z

Safiel:

Samm:

Safiel:

Viera roundabout sees most traffic accidents in Brevard, Florida

Roundabouts are great.

IF they are well designed.

But there are some, such as this infamous one in Viera, Florida, which I have had the displeasure of having to traverse, that are absolutely horrible.

Most roundabouts are at least decent, but some need a total redesign.

Most roundabout accidents happen for two reasons, excess speed and people too stupid to know they are supposed to yield to vehicles in the circle. The design is based on peak traffic count and the speed limit on primary route that goes through the intersection. They all are designed for drivers to reduce speed while in the intersection and are posted as such with yellow advisory speed signs.

But in some cases, roundabouts are poorly designed, often due to traffic engineers that don’t truly comprehend their purpose.

For example, this. The video poster demonstrates a correct version of a roundabout at the end. Video is just under one minute in length.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fapMvPoRE0U

I’m sorry, but that’s not a roundabout, that’s a traffic circle. With a roundabout, the entering lanes come into and out of the circle at an angle of about 20-25 degrees.

With traffic circles, the roads come in and out straight in.

You are right, that’s a bad design. It looks like it was designed by the director of public works who had been promoted to engineer based on his years on the job.

bigtwnvin · 2024-09-29T12:32:28.420Z

Samm:

Nemesis:

Roundabouts are far more effective at keeping the traffic flowing than stop signs plus they significantly reduce the number of vehicle collisions.

They also greatly reduce the severity of collisions when they do occur.

Five days a week I have to traverse four roundabouts whilst performing my duties as a school bus driver. Not sure about other states laws but here in Florida a vehicle entering the round has the right of way. Drivers routinely charge into the circle ahead of the bus forcing me to make abrupt braking maneuvers. Now, drivers do this on open streets as well. Anyone who has driven in that big yellow cheese box knows it is a target of opportunity for selfish and reckless drivers. Rounds are beneficial for keeping the flow of traffic moving to be sure. Are they an alternative to stop signs? Maybe, ■■■■■■■■ run stop signs. Rounds might be great but precarious.

Nemesis · 2024-09-29T13:19:00.042Z

I see the same thing here.

It baffles me that introduction of a roundabout was not accompanied by more public education by states who adopted these.

Toll_Collector · 2024-09-29T13:43:51.585Z

Samm:

You are right, that’s a bad design. It looks like it was designed by the director of public works who had been promoted to engineer based on his years on the job.

Sadly, that’s how a lot of public jobs work. That’s how it works at my job. The only thing that matters is seniority. In some cases, it supersedes qualification needed for the job. It makes no sense.