Jezcoe
March 8, 2019, 11:45am
274
Optrader:
Jezcoe:
Stop acting like supply side economics is a thing.
During economic good times, pay down the debt.
Address the three largest parts of the budget first… Social Security,Medicare/Medicaid and military spending.
Social Security and Medicaid/Medicare can be shored up mostly with tax tweaks but that will still leave gaps and unpopular solutions will have to happen.
The military could have it’s budget drastically reduced… but that is politically unpopular also. But… if we would just admit that Military spending is a Keynesian tool to hose money into the economy… then we could treat it as such.
Never voted for the guy… so I don’t know why you are complaining to me about it.
I am not saying that government should be larger but that government spending be done smarter. The idea that privatizing government services is saving costs and providing better results is turning out to be false in almost every instance.
First… there is no such thing as a SS trust fund. It would be an impossibility for it to exist. Second… it is not a Ponzi scheme. That is CATO institute propaganda that was created to sell the public on privatization… and it is okay… I used to buy it also. To tie Social Security’s looming crises… something that has been known about for decades now to abortion is quite silly. The looming failure is because of the same reasons that we have a lot of problems… no one wants to pay for stuff.
It is funded in a lot of the same way as Social Security… but abortion isn’t applied in it’s problems. Odd.
Optrader:
Our military though is a different matter. You have to admit the US has paid a disproportionate share of NATO and pays billions of dollars to other nations for the privilege of protecting THEIR countries. Trump is trying to fix this situation by demanding other countries pay their fair share. I would agree, we should not be the world’s policeman. We should put America first here by protecting our own borders and carefully weighing our military presence and actions in other countries by how it affects our interests and security and that of our allies. Our military members should be paid fairly, given all the equipment they need to do their jobs safely to defend our freedom and our veterans and military families taken care of too. Serving is a great sacrifice and they should be treated honorably by our government and citizens.
Well… this comes down to a problem of how the US wants to operate in the world. We are the only country with a global hegemony and to keep that is expensive. Now if we don’t want a global hegemony anymore then that is a discussion worth having. One would have to talk about a world where the US doesn’t have bases in foreign countries for the advantage of our own security and economic benefit. Something will fill that vacuum and we would have to be comfortable with that.
Complaining about NATO is quite silly in my opinion. We choose to spend to spend the money that we do… we don’t have to but we do it. European countries are quite nice to allow us to have quite a significant military presence on their soil… something that we would lose our ■■■■ over if it existed here.
To complain about the cost of NATO one would have to make the argument that we do not get benefit from the agreement and I don’t think that one can do that.
You could cut Billions out of the military and the average person wouldn’t miss it… but the manufacturers would who service the military … including those who make the weapons systems that no one wants… would miss it. Because a significant enough portion of the pentagon budget has become a Keynesian way to hose money into an economy and the sooner one accepts that the better.
Obamacare is a pretty terrible law. I would much rather see a single payer system. And yes we do get something of value from our military just as we get something of value from the majority of our federal spending.
[quote=“Optrader, post:269, topic:159892, full:true”]BTW, did you know Keynes was a big believer in tax CUTS?
Yes… but not in a supply side way… because supply side is nonsense.
Farmers just need to reach for the stars!
Fox news pretty much has daily AOC main headlines
Yes and austerity brought Japan out of its long decade or you know not really. You will never be able to prove your assertion while we have actual proof that austerity programs during recessions actually hurt.
Bootstrap time? I think not.
That, as much as i hated it, was simply a policy in a bill, it was not socialism. The government taking over all health care would be an example of socialism.
Are regulations socialists. If we don’t adhere to the strict definition of socialism as a system of total control, is government involvement in the “free market” socialism? I believe that it is. I also believe that it is fraught with peril BUT i believe it to be necessary because an unregulated market is a terrible thing to behold.
Jezcoe
March 8, 2019, 1:30pm
284
FreeAndClear:
Are regulations socialists. If we don’t adhere to the strict definition of socialism as a system of total control, is government involvement in the “free market” socialism? I believe that it is. I also believe that it is fraught with peril BUT i believe it to be necessary because an unregulated market is a terrible thing to behold.
Socialism has come to mean “something the radio told me not to like”
1 Like
I’ve thought that for a long time, if they completely control the means of production, what’s the difference? They don’t, but it is definitely creeping in that direction little by little. Trump’s regulation cutting is ostensibly going to get a handle on that, but he does it so recklessly I think he does more harm than good. I’m sure of it in fact.
I’m sure there is some invisible line that is crossed where “the means of production” are no longer private, but I haven’t even seen a discussion on it. And not I don’t have time to start one lol. Not for a few days anyhow…….
theduke:
Since dems really aren’t pushing true socialism, ideas like ‘‘Regulatory ownership’’ will become the new false prophet of the 18th century constitutionalist. When you look around and see no one is really advocating the social ownership of the means of production and workers’ self-management. All they have left is the creation of ‘‘Regulatory ownership’’ straw men.
That ain’t no strawman, it is something we must be wary of, even if it is not upon us. The founders would agree I’ve no doubt.
WuWei
March 8, 2019, 1:51pm
287
I disagree. It was socialism by regulation.
WuWei
March 8, 2019, 1:52pm
288
I’m glad we could agree. I disagree that it is not upon us. Respectfully.
Right and unfortunately that has been true for a few decades. I keep waiting for that red scare to take over the country. Anyway now…
YLBD
March 8, 2019, 3:15pm
290
It’s insane watching the Democrats go in reverse, they’ve went back to the 40’s-60’s when they voted to keep guns from black people, and when they didn’t want black people to be able to vote and lets not forget how they voted to keep women from having any rights too, LMAO, they’ve come FULL circle for ALL to SEE! there’s not enough soap in the world to wash the blood n scum off these double mined, forked tongue, two faced lying hypocrites…
Jezcoe
March 8, 2019, 3:20pm
291
YLBD:
It’s insane watching the Democrats go in reverse, they’ve went back to the 40’s-60’s when they voted to keep guns from black people, and when they didn’t want black people to be able to vote and lets not forget how they voted to keep women from having any rights too, LMAO, they’ve come FULL circle for ALL to SEE! there’s not enough soap in the world to wash the blood n scum off these double mined, forked tongue, two faced lying hypocrites…
I will be sure not to vote for a Democrat from the 40’s for now on.
YLBD
March 8, 2019, 3:23pm
292
their mentality is from that time period, so have fun staying on the farm
Jezcoe
March 8, 2019, 3:26pm
293
Yeah… that silliness doesn’t fly.
YLBD
March 8, 2019, 3:57pm
294
All this socialism stuff being pumped out by the Democrats is going to hurt them in the long run,
