Figuring some things out about Trump

Now, a lot of this is coincidence but I think I am getting a handle on things.

In the middle of an impeachment inquiry, why is it that Barr is flying all over the place not to find ways out of the mess, but trying to discredit the Mueller report? Why are they still hiding these conversations on the top secret server when they know Congress is aware of it now?

Remember, Barr already let Trump off the hook on this matter. He cannot be tried or even indicted while seated as POTUS. Trump took this as a total vindication. So why all of this flying around and talking to all these countries about discrediting Russian influence on the 2016 elections? On the surface it doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Until you really think about it.

Let’s go back to the Russian invasion of Crimea and Ukraine in 2014 (?). The result was a series of sanctions and eviction from the G8, which then became the G7. Those sanctions specifically targeted businesses run by Oligarchs within Russia. They hurt them quite badly.

At the time the Ukraine had pro-Russian folks in place as leaders and prosecutors, protecting Russian interests. Mannafort was employed by one of these guys, Poroshenko I believe, covertly. This is a major reason he is in jail now, he didn’t disclose this nor the income he made.

Ukraine was hurting in this incursion and needed assistance from the IMF, the World Bank, the European Union and the US. But Poroshenko was a stooge for Russia and the Prosecutors there routinely allowed Ukrainian oligarchs to run rampant with corruption. It was in our and Europe’s interest that the Ukraine get assistance, but it was also important to stop Russian influence and corruption there. Biden headed this effort and got the worst Prosecutor, Shokin, fired as a condition to getting aid to Ukraine. Shokin refused to investigate corrupt businesses, like the one Biden’s kid worked for a few years later, because they were linked to Ukrainian leaders linked to Russia.

By getting Shokin out, and getting outsiders into the boards of these companies, there was less corruption and aid started coming in.

So, now Russia loses influence in the Ukraine and still has these crippling sanctions. Then the 2016 elections come up. Mannafort’s guy, Trump, is running and the Russians decide he is their guy. The Trump tower meeting was about lifting sanctions in exchange for help in the election. When Trump was inaugurated Flynn’s first call was to Russians about sanction relief. But the problem? New sanctions put in place by Obama due to the Russian interference.

So, now 2 sets of sanctions and exclusion from the G8.

How does Russia get out of it? You have to approach it from 2 fronts. First, you need to end the Ukraine confrontation to get them back into the G8 and end the first set of sanctions. Trump delays aid initially by delaying aid in 2017 in the form of supplying Javelin missiles to fend off Russian tanks and helicopters and then holding them up again in 2019. Money the Ukrainians can get from the EU but they NEED these missiles. He uses this as leverage to not only dig up dirt on the Bidens but also to push for an end to the conflict, even stating that if the Ukrainian President comes to terms with Russia he can come to the White House.

Now for the 2016 election sanctions, you need to find some way that you can shift the blame off the Russians and onto either the Ukraine or somewhere else. Thus the talk about Cloudstrike, Barr flying around trying to find some way to discredit the Mueller report, anything to stop these sanctions.

I don’t think Trump actually cares who burns in his own administration at this point, he wants these sanctions gone for whatever reason. Is it to help Russia or is it to somehow validate his win in 2016? If it was just that, he would have stopped looking since he is ostensibly free and clear but he keeps pushing for some reason. I honestly believe it is to find some way to get Russian sanctions lifted.

Sorry for the length of the post, but there is a lot to consider, thanks for reading.


Yeah, Trump won the Mueller investigation, so it doesn’t make sense to continue to try to discredit it. Why do you think he’s so keen to have sanctions lifted on Russia?

Why are you ignoring all those investigation into Obama’s attempted coup?

No, that’s all wrong.

Try again!


Thank you for your thoughts and I’ll continue to observe what we are privileged to be fed. That said, what a nice way to describe highly probable corruption.


I cannot make heads or tails of it unless it is explicitly for the Russians to get off the hook for the 2016 elections. That would go against our own Intelligence community findings though.

Trump could simply make the argument that while they did it he didn’t know about it, or at least did not “collude” which has never been a crime to begin with.

But Barr is flying around the world NOW, Pompeo is flying around NOW, and it’s not about the Ukainian mess, it’s still about the 2016 elections. That only makes sense if Trump is interested in getting the 2016 set of sanctions set forth by Obama lifted, because that can only be lifted if Russia was not involved.

Thanks for your time, I know the post is long.

The DOJ is here to investigate. It currently has an investigation to find the origins of the Russian investigations. That is its job and what it should be doing.
It is not the job of the DOJ to defend Trump from impeachment.

Though I do concede that the current outrage over contacting foreign governments may indeed be for the purpose of chilling the DOJ investigation into the origins of the Russian investigation. Kind of like obstruction of justice, isn’t it?

Another thing to consider is the 2017 release of missiles, which were delayed as well. The Ukrainian government decided not to cooperate with the Mueller investigation in I believe April of 2017 and shortly thereafter the missiles were released to them. Could be a coincidence but this could also have some relevance. Perhaps Trump learned the Ukraine was willing to “play ball” in order to get the defensive help it needed and he used that again in 2019.

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NP…remember a long, long time ago, I told you we have similar conclusions? :tumbler_glass:

I would argue that the DOJ, and especially Barr, are compromised in the Ukrainian matter because Barr was involved in the conversations with the Ukrainian government and the calls in question. Yet, when the WB complaint was taken to the DOJ he did not remove himself from the equation but ruled that the complaint did not need to go to congress.

As far as investigating the investigation, for what purpose does it honestly serve? Is it to blame someone else for the DNC hack? Trump is already free and clear by the ruling of the DOJ that he cannot be charged with any crime, so what purpose does this serve other than to overrule previous findings from the Intelligence Community that Russia hacked the DNC? All that would do is give Russia the right to request a lifting of sanctions, yes?

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I do recall that, yes.

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Maybe Occam’s razor: self interest and he and Barr are elderly Fox News addicts.

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Perhaps, but I think that self interest is not just for the US. Who benefits from trying to find another person or country to blame for the DNC hacking? Because that did happen, and that stuff was leaked through Wikileaks via Guccifer 2, who is a Russian hacker. And Russian troll farms did target specific social media accounts in an attempt to help the Trump campaign. All that is true.

So why is the Trump administration so intent on finding someone else to blame? It would give no one benefit but Russia, who would see sanction relief. Which is the only thing Russia ever wanted in the first place.

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First, there is no “compromise” in being discussed in that conversation. He has stated that Guiliani didn’t even talk to him about this. Being mentioned in a conversation is not the same as being involved in a conversation.
Second, the DOJ OLC career professionals are the ones who made the decision about the whistle blower report. You have no evidence or reason to believe that Barr personally had anything to do with it.
The purpose of the investigation into the origins of the Russian investigation is to find out the truth about what happened and why it happened. An investigation that is making some very very nervous.

Barr stated Guilliani never talked about it? Barr was mentioned in the memo between Trump and the Ukrainian leader. That should automatically make him consider recusal in any matter involving it, and the OLC works for him.

As far as the origins of the Russia investigation, wasn’t that the purpose of the Mueller report? He went over all that. Anything other than what has already been confirmed is more on the realm of conspiracy theory and whom would benefit if another entity was found culpable for the DNC hack? Not Trump, he would still be President and he has already been cleared of facing prosecution. The only possible beneficiary would be Russia.

Why don’t you wait till the investigation into that are over to make your decision into weather it was the Russians or someone else that interfered in the 2016 election?

NO. That was not the purpose of the Muller report. In fact, Mueller made it clear that he did not look at all into the origins of these investigations. Thus: The current investigations.

Curious that Democrats are so adamant in attacking this investigations, even to the extent of trying to block contact with those who might have some knowledge about it.

Well, not really all that curious.

If they did nothing wrong, then why all the protests?

You can see a lot of desperation.

They know trump isn’t getting impeached and pelosi just cost them everything.


Yes, we see it with every new thread is started in deflection of the president’s current scandal.