Female athlete complains about competing against transgender males

Oh? What difference are left after removing gender norms? Especially for non surgical trans.

Are we using gender norms the same way? My understand of the term is that its the expected behavior society places on someone based on their gender and the criticism they may receive when breaking those norms, which is different then how people present themselves and how those presentations fit into our collective schema of what is consider female vs male. In other words the difference between the idea that a man shouldn’t wear a dress vs the idea that dresses are associated with women.

Doesn’t this seem overly complicated?

I had a friend who’s sister was “gender fluid” and “non-binary.” I asked her to explain to me what that meant and after the condescending stare for me having the audacity to not know anything about it, she explained it to me.

And you know what? I still don’t understand it. And I told her that. To me, she’s a woman. She looks like a woman, has larger breasts like a woman, is built like a woman, and talks and sounds like a woman. I said more power to her for wanting to live her dreams, but it’s not something I could ever understand.

I mean, I basically live as a white man. An educated redneck with a thick southern drawl, even though I’m clearly biracial. But I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to bleach my skin and get hair implants to make me look “white.” I don’t get offended when someone assumes that I’m black. I mean hell I look like a black man who talks like a redneck. I get it. I’m not going to correct someone or get angry because of it.

So while I fully support everyone’s right to life, liberty, and property, I just don’t understand any of “breaking down of gender norms.” It seems overly complicated and people get offended to easily when you accidentally misidentify someone. More power to them and I oppose any discrimination against them. But there are certain things, like the OP, where lines have to be drawn for reasons of common sense. It’s not discrimination or hatred to feel the way some of us do about this particular case.

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If dresses are and can be worn by either gender without social criticism, how are dresses still associated with women?

The sports stuff is admittedly complicated. You might find this document an interesting read: https://drive.google.com/file/d/14Osr1FgL93AOAT7qve72NCR1TUnee96I/view

Not sure if you are asking about now or a hypothetical? In the now, in many places men are still socially criticized if they where a dress and dresses are associated with women because women primarily where them. If hypothetically discussing a point in time where either gender can where a dress free of social criticism, then it would really depend if it becomes so common place for men to also where dresses that its stops being associated with women.

Which does me no good for the next one I encounter. It’s not a learning experience, it’s a wearing experience. One always runs the risk (at odds much worse the 50-50) of being wrong and being politely (sometimes) corrected. At some point, one tends to give up.

Over 16 cases the Supreme Court has cited marriage as a right.

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I don’t know what to tell you.

So if I want to marry my brother or father, or both of them (and maybe my mom and sister too) the Supreme Court says I have the right to do so. Is that what you are trying to tell me?

Take it up with the Supreme Court justices who cited marriage as a right. It’s logical that they know more about these things than you.

That’s pretty darned obvious. But don’t feel bad, nobody else has been able to explain it either.

You’re telling me that they say it’s a Right, why can’t you tell me how far that Right goes?

What is there to explain? You find it wearing to talk to people who might be transgender. There’s nothing that can be done short of acclimating yourself to not feel weary about it, which I doubt you have any interest in doing.

What does my opinion matter? The Supreme Court justices already showed you to be wrong.

What do you mean what’s to explain? You are approached by what you think may be male (by birth) dressed in women’s clothing. Is he/she/it a male transvestite, a transgender man, or a transgender woman? What pronoun do you use?

She/he would have no advantage, would actually be at a significant disadvantage.

Without more information or context I can’t answer that question.

And “it” is dehumanizing.

What pronoun do you use?

They/them/their

Don’t care. Marriage is a restriction, not a right. You shouldn’t need a government endorsement of marriage.

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I agree, but that is not how some on the Right think. There have been cases where athletes like this have been barred from competing against fellow men and were forced to compete against women.

Mack Beggs was born female and transitioned to male, but was forced to compete against the girl wrestlers due to Texas law. He won two state championships this way, but never wanted to wrestle girls.

See the problem?