Female athlete complains about competing against transgender males

[fallenturtle]

@zantax

@fallenturtle

@Samm

The logic leads to two separate and opposite results. That makes choosing one of those arbitrary. What they want does not change that.

Under what line of logic would a person who presents themselves as a woman be okay with being called a man or vice versa.

How am I supposed to know what they are presenting themselves as, if gender norms are outdated?

If you’re trying to be polite, just avoid using gendered terms in reference to them if you don’t know.

It’s ok for a man to wear a dress and lipstick right?

Why wouldn’t it be?

[Samm]

@fallenturtle

@Samm

The logic leads to two separate and opposite results. That makes choosing one of those arbitrary. What they want does not change that.

Under what line of logic would a person who presents themselves as a woman be okay with being called a man or vice versa.

Again, that’s what they want. It has nothing to do with how I see them or what I do.

[Samm]

@fallenturtle

@Samm

Where is Marriage cited as a Right?

In many places. For example in Loving v. Virginia:

“The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men …
To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State’s citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discriminations. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State.” -Chief Justice Earl Warren

I wonder what Warren would have thought about brothers (or sisters) marrying each other.

[Samm]

@zantax

@fallenturtle

@Samm

The logic leads to two separate and opposite results. That makes choosing one of those arbitrary. What they want does not change that.

Under what line of logic would a person who presents themselves as a woman be okay with being called a man or vice versa.

How am I supposed to know what they are presenting themselves as, if gender norms are outdated? It’s ok for a man to wear a dress and lipstick right?

And you darned well better know if he wants to be called a man or a woman or a whatever when you address him/her/whatever.

[fallenturtle]

@Samm

@fallenturtle

@Samm

The logic leads to two separate and opposite results. That makes choosing one of those arbitrary. What they want does not change that.

Under what line of logic would a person who presents themselves as a woman be okay with being called a man or vice versa.

Again, that’s what they want. It has nothing to do with how I see them or what I do.

How you see them or what you do is irrelevant to this topic. I know you’re smart enough to understand that transgender people want to be referred to by the gender they identify with. You’re just arguing for the sake of arguing.

[fallenturtle]

@Samm

@fallenturtle

@Samm

Where is Marriage cited as a Right?

In many places. For example in Loving v. Virginia:

“The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men …
To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State’s citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discriminations. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State.” -Chief Justice Earl Warren

I wonder what Warren would have thought about brothers (or sisters) marrying each other.

Irrelevant.

[fallenturtle]

@Samm

@zantax

@fallenturtle

@Samm

The logic leads to two separate and opposite results. That makes choosing one of those arbitrary. What they want does not change that.

Under what line of logic would a person who presents themselves as a woman be okay with being called a man or vice versa.

How am I supposed to know what they are presenting themselves as, if gender norms are outdated? It’s ok for a man to wear a dress and lipstick right?

And you darned well better know if he wants to be called a man or a woman or a whatever when you address him/her/whatever.

Nope. It’s okay to not be psychic.

[Samm]

@fallenturtle

@Samm

@fallenturtle

@Samm

The logic leads to two separate and opposite results. That makes choosing one of those arbitrary. What they want does not change that.

Under what line of logic would a person who presents themselves as a woman be okay with being called a man or vice versa.

Again, that’s what they want. It has nothing to do with how I see them or what I do.

How you see them or what you do is irrelevant to this topic. I know you’re smart enough to understand that transgender people want to be referred to by the gender they identify with. You’re just arguing for the sake of arguing.

No I am not. When one of those gender confused individuals presents themselves, there are numerous pronouns that they may be offended by if I choose the wrong one. Therefore, I choose to ignore both their presentation and their indignation if I get it wrong. It’s their problem, not mine.

[Samm]

@fallenturtle

@Samm

@fallenturtle

@Samm

Where is Marriage cited as a Right?

In many places. For example in Loving v. Virginia:

“The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men …
To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State’s citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discriminations. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State.” -Chief Justice Earl Warren

I wonder what Warren would have thought about brothers (or sisters) marrying each other.

Irrelevant.

Not at all. If you read closely, you will see that Warren was referring specifically to race. If Marriage was a Right, there would be no prohibition between any two (or three, or four … ) individuals getting married.

[fallenturtle]

@Samm

@fallenturtle

@Samm

@fallenturtle

@Samm

The logic leads to two separate and opposite results. That makes choosing one of those arbitrary. What they want does not change that.

Under what line of logic would a person who presents themselves as a woman be okay with being called a man or vice versa.

Again, that’s what they want. It has nothing to do with how I see them or what I do.

How you see them or what you do is irrelevant to this topic. I know you’re smart enough to understand that transgender people want to be referred to by the gender they identify with. You’re just arguing for the sake of arguing.

No I am not. When one of those gender confused individuals presents themselves, there are numerous pronouns that they may be offended by if I choose the wrong one. Therefore, I choose to ignore both their presentation and their indignation if I get it wrong.

Yes, you are.

I’m not talking about preferred pronouns. I’m talking about the terms “trans man” and “trans woman” and how its easy to know which to use. You’re pretending its not easy because you like to argue.

It’s their problem, not mine.

Some people care about being cordial to strangers and others don’t.

[fallenturtle]

@Samm

@fallenturtle

@Samm

@fallenturtle

@Samm

Where is Marriage cited as a Right?

In many places. For example in Loving v. Virginia:

“The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men …
To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State’s citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discriminations. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State.” -Chief Justice Earl Warren

I wonder what Warren would have thought about brothers (or sisters) marrying each other.

Irrelevant.

Not at all. If you read closely, you will see that Warren was referring specifically to race. If Marriage was a Right, there would be no prohibition between any two (or three, or four … ) individuals getting married.

So he used the term “right” in error?

[Samm]

@fallenturtle

Yes, you are.

I’m not talking about preferred pronouns. I’m talking about the terms “trans man” and “trans woman” and how its easy to know which to use. You’re pretending its not easy because you like to argue.

I can’t use them without running the risk of getting it wrong. That’s not an argument, it’s just a fact of life.

[fallenturtle]

@Samm

@fallenturtle

Yes, you are.

I’m not talking about preferred pronouns. I’m talking about the terms “trans man” and “trans woman” and how its easy to know which to use. You’re pretending its not easy because you like to argue.

I can’t use them without running the risk of getting it wrong. That’s not an argument, it’s just a fact of life.

If you know what gender they identify with, then its easy. If not, then its moot.

Most transgender people if you misgender them will politely correct you.

[DMK]

@fallenturtle

Its silly to not let women voluntarily fight men just because they are women. I don’t see us moving backwards. I can’t imagine a woman wanting to fight being told she can’t because she’s a woman would take it very well.

Just because they are women?

I’d gather a woman who got her ticket punched by a man would eventually reconsider how beliefs are overruled by reality.

[DMK]

@Smyrna

…who may be the best mindset on this discussion, who says you’re full of crap. Transgender females should not be competing against women.

Honestly, Smyrna?

As a female I would never like to see a man who wants to be a woman labeled as a female. It is seriously insulting.

Really, they should have their own category.

[DMK]

@fallenturtle

That will never fly because most transgendered people don’t want to be considered “othered”.

Too bad. They don’t fit into the category of male or female.

[fallenturtle]

@DMK

@fallenturtle

Its silly to not let women voluntarily fight men just because they are women. I don’t see us moving backwards. I can’t imagine a woman wanting to fight being told she can’t because she’s a woman would take it very well.

Just because they are women?

I’d gather a woman who got her ticket punched by a man would eventually reconsider how beliefs are overruled by reality.

If you voluntarily enter a fight, you have to assume you might get punched.

[fallenturtle]

@DMK

@fallenturtle

That will never fly because most transgendered people don’t want to be considered “othered”.

Too bad. They don’t fit into the category of male or female.

Sure they do, unless they’re non-binary.

[DMK]

@fallenturtle

If you voluntarily enter a fight, you have to assume you might get punched.

Well, that’s the idea.

The idea isn’t being a female getting punched by a man pretending to be a woman.

[fallenturtle]

@DMK

@fallenturtle

If you voluntarily enter a fight, you have to assume you might get punched.

Well, that’s the idea.

The idea isn’t being a female getting punched by a man pretending to be a woman.

Some people are stronger and/or better at fighting then other people. It doesn’t have to be broken down by sex.

How do you know they’re pretending? They say there are differences between the brains of females and males. If intersex people happen sometimes, why can’t there be situations where the brain is one female and the body is male and vice versa?