Fair/Cheating Moral Foundation and Entering the Workforce

[WuWei]

@JayJay

@WuWei

@JayJay

@WuWei

You might want to check my posts on the topic before supporting unfounded accusations.

Healthcare too.

Did I say YOU said that?

Your sidekick did.

It’d be a lot more effective if you didn’t lump and categorize people.

Or if you hadn’t

[JayJay]

I didn’t.

[WuWei]

[tzu]

Family with four children, two parent income of $60k, renters.

They voucher their kids out of public schools, say to a ‘private Christian academy’, but don’t contribute the equivalent or greater amount in property/other taxes.

How is that not welfare?

[PurpnGold]

@tzu

Family with four children, two parent income of $60k, renters.

They voucher their kids out of public schools, say to a ‘private Christian academy’, but don’t contribute the equivalent or greater amount in property/other taxes.

How is that not welfare?

Those kids won’t get into those schools. Those schools have finite resources and small student:teacher ratios.

They won’t give that up to let little Johnny from across the tracks attend their prestigious school.

And that is just for the schools within reach of vouchers kids. Most of those schools are 20-50k a year. A voucher won’t cover that.

[JayJay]

@PurpnGold

@tzu

Family with four children, two parent income of $60k, renters.

They voucher their kids out of public schools, say to a ‘private Christian academy’, but don’t contribute the equivalent or greater amount in property/other taxes.

How is that not welfare?

Those kids won’t get into those schools. Those schools have finite resources and small student:teacher ratios.

They won’t give that up to let little Johnny from across the tracks attend their prestigious school.

And that is just for the schools within reach of vouchers kids. Most of those schools are 20-50k a year. A voucher won’t cover that.

The belief is other schools will pop up to take up the demand.

The reality is that doesn’t happen.

And it’s why a free market model of schools doesn’t work.

That there are private options speaks to those with ability to pay for such existing.

That others without means can sometimes get in is due to those private schools skimming the best young minds to prop up their performance records.

[Samm]

@JayJay

@Samm

Of course it’s deniable.

Only if you are in to denial of reality.

Sure, only you knows the truth.

[Samm]

@Jezcoe

@peek-a-boo

@Jezcoe

Turning to using political power to fix those problems… something that every generation before them has done… is marked up as whining.

What LIBs continue to fail to understand is that government is the problem not the solution. The younger generations have become indoctrinated to believe they are entitled and big government is there to reinforce that mentality.

Okay.

The Problem is that there is a company in the town polluting the waterways.

What is the solution?

Torches and pitchforks.

[Samm]

@mwevans1234

That’s both ridiculous on its face and unsupported by data.

The children of top quintile parents go to better schools, have greater optionality regarding higher education and enter the workforce with a more established network.

I suppose you’re free to deny it, but if you think that Appalachia Alan, who is growing up in West Virginia’s rustiest coal town, has access to the same school quality, money, and network as mine, you’re living in fantasy land.

Hmmm Only a 30% probability that a kid from the top quintile will stay in the top quintile. Yet only a 10% probability that a kid from the bottom quintile will remain there. That doesn’t sound definitive to me.

[WuWei]

@tzu

Family with four children, two parent income of $60k, renters.

They voucher their kids out of public schools, say to a ‘private Christian academy’, but don’t contribute the equivalent or greater amount in property/other taxes.

How is that not welfare?

Because they aren’t using the school and the money was theirs to begin with.

[WuWei]

@JayJay

The reality is that doesn’t happen.

How do you know?

[Samm]

@tzu

There’s no ‘community in force’ at the moment. Most consensus positions are broken or in disarray. The conservative push to recreate a mythical one-culture might result in the liberation of the merchant princes from their few remaining tax and oversight constraints, but physics and costs being non-negotiable, the thing most people will learn is that those kind of ambitions should be selected against. That’s some of what is going on right now, because there’s no 1950s-1980s media monopoly to gatekeep the amplifiers.

Where did you learn to talk like that?

[Samm]

@JayJay

@tzu

There’s no ‘community in force’ at the moment. Most consensus positions are broken or in disarray. The conservative push to recreate a mythical one-culture might result in the liberation of the merchant princes from their few remaining tax and oversight constraints, but physics and costs being non-negotiable, the thing most people will learn is that those kind of ambitions should be selected against. That’s some of what is going on right now, because there’s no 1950s-1980s media monopoly to gatekeep the amplifiers.

They learn it too late.

You dont know what he’s saying either, do you.

[Samm]

@PurpnGold

@tzu

Moralizing work is stupid. It’s only slightly less stupid than making a moral case for poverty or suffering as character formation.

Everyone should be poor…It builds character… and statistically more poor people. But it also builds character

Agreed.

[Samm]

@WuWei

@mwevans1234

Why not?

Because while it would be equal, it wouldn’t be fair. If things are just going to end up equal, what’s the point of trying to improve?

Yep. Forcing (government) everything to be the same for everyone is a recipe for mediocrity.

[Samm]

@TommyLucchese

@mwevans1234

Some folks think that if less successful people have crappy healthcare and their kids go to terrible schools, that’s the deserved reality and the way things should be. I disagree.

Richard Hofstadter figured this out almost sixty years ago, quote unquote fiscal conservatism is actually about punishing people for perceived moral failings.

You literally can’t think of an issue where if given the choice between something that saves money and something that punishes people for their “immorality” that they don’t pick the latter.

Punishing people for perceived moral failings is hardly the exclusive bailiwick of fiscal conservatives.

[Samm]

@TommyLucchese

@WuWei

There is something to that. Somebody chose punishment for non-compliance a long time ago.

It has to do with the hegemony of defining “succes” and “good”.

It is a form of collectivism as well.

Continuing to dump money into crap schools in a stupid attempt to turn them into “good” schools is not saving money. It is pissing it away.

You don’t care about the money. You only care about punishing people for what you think are their moral failings. When given a choice between a policy that will save more money or is more efficient and one that punishes people for being bad or whatever, you pick the latter one hundred percent of the time.

And what is it that you want to do to people for their moral failing of being rich?

[tzu]

‘Community in force’ is in quotes for a reason.

[tzu]

It’s not their money if they owe it.

And if the vouchers cover more than they pay, it’s welfare.

But since it’s welfare for church schools, your lot are on board.

[Samm]

@TommyLucchese

@WuWei

Exactly, handed to me , not you. Stop whining.

Which policy will save me money do I not support?

Of course, as demonstrated here, baby boomers are such self absorbed navel gazers that they can’t even comprehend a world that isn’t about them.

You guys wrecked the best economy in human history and your children are going to have a worse life than their parents for the first time in American history and you’re so self absorbed and selfish you can’t even understand why that’s a problem. The Me Generation indeed.

You have really bought in to the “them vs. us” thing, haven’t you.