602

First, you are not very bright if you think I am passing along information as my own. As you have just proven, anyone who wants more information can easily find something for themselves. They don’t need the same source I stumbled upon once upon a time and have since forgotten.

I am not familiar with Torah.com, but I may check it out. And, no, in chatting, no one needs to go find a source. We are not a group of scholars here, preparing for a presentation! Anyone interested in following up with anything said here is quite capable of doing it themselves if they are interested.

603

So jesus existed before the virgin birth, or God was referring to Jesus before Jesus time? Did God know at creation of humans he would need to sacrifice himself as Jesus to save us?

604

Harassing you?

Big Sigh.
Sigh.

605

Yes you should. See how providing sources helps conversation?

606

Translation: “I cant back up anything I say and I will be mad if you ask me to”.

Werent you lecturing people in another thread about needing 30 years of study to understand the Bible? Talk about “scholarly”.

607

Yes and no. I believe the story gives us a lot of clues as to the actual history of events that did take place and clues of the culture(s) of the time.

When we learned the truth about Santa Claus, I was delighted to know that grown-up imaginations could greatly supersede what I, as a child, could come up with. I loved all the embroidery, and I caught the connections to an even more traditional Christmas story. Imagination. Embroidery. Connecting. Great stories have all these elements.

On the other hand, my cousin was horrified by the lie of Santa Claus, swore then and there (and carried it out) that he would, from the very beginning, tell his children the truth about Santa Claus.

Seriously, I can’t remember a time that I read the Bible as always literally true. The clues about Santa were always front and center for the discerning to see and to understand. The truth was there, shining and all lit up. Jonah and the whale; Balaam and the donkey. Then, as I grew older, science so aptly added to our knowledge of ancient days and times, and it was even easier to see how the stories sprang out of them, the truths now shining and all lit up–embroidered beautifully.

Most of the women and girls (including me) loved to embroider. Just as it is easy to discern the pillow case from the embroidery, so it can be easy to discern fact from story/embroidery. Just as embroidery can enhance and call attention to a pillowcase, so can embroidery enhance and call attention to a fact. I like the ancients way of doing this. Truly, at times they must have lived a very bleak existence. Their response (at least sometimes): Singing and dancing and storytelling, not moping, depression, and glumness.

Still, just as two people in the same family can grow up with one preferring stark reality and plain pillowcases, the other preferring highlights and embroidery, people can approach the Bible as stark reality, the other as highlights and embroidery so that people cannot miss the truth, the lessons, and the connections being presented. (One of those connections being all of those impotent Egyptian gods versus the One, powerful God.)

608

Scripture calls Jesus the lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Yup, God saw the fall of man before He created us, and therefore the need for a savior. Yet, he still created us.

Are you glad, however you believe you got here, to live this life, or are you as George Bailey, wishing you’d never been born?

From your posts, my impression is that you are not a happy person. So, if you don’t believe in God, you can’t very well blame him for your misery. Sadly, on the other hand, you won’t likely seek him for happiness and fulfillment either. If you are looking to man for the latter, perhaps Dr. Phil would avail himself to you.

When asked, God just said “I AM.” Either he is or he isn’t. I don’t presume to speak for God. I’ve never spoken to him directly, so I can only point to the scriptures, tell you I believe them and why. Convincing and convicting is the job of the Holy Spirit.

As Meri just posted, you sometimes have to do your own research. Jesus said “seek and ye shall find…” You’re not seeking, just bashing, and while I freely admit my own guilt in that at times, there comes a point when enough is enough.

Peace.

609

Maybe you don’t read the Bible as historically true, but the literalness of the Bible is held by a large majority of Christians.

And the Levite Hypothesis weakens a One God idea…it doesn’t strengthen it.

It follows a mold of how human-invented religions might evolve.

610

Apparently the majority of Americans do not. A Gallup Pole indicates that only 24% of Americans view it as literally true, yet 71% do consider it a holy document, believing it to be God inspired. https://news.gallup.com/poll/210704/record-few-americans-believe-bible-literal-word-god.aspx

Therefore, I am not a minority point of view; in fact, it appears I’m well within the norm.

611

Wasn’t that what I said? Clearly, the Egyptians believed in numerous gods. Remember, just a few posts ago, I noted the idea of One God of all first appeared with Abraham, and that many held the idea of each person having a personal god–i.e., the God of Abraham. From there it went to family or clan, then to nation. Individual, clan, nation, world. The sequence here is easy to observe. I was taught this as a child in Catholic school. It has not been some deep, well hidden secret.

Perhaps back in the day, youngsters were taught not to pursue the Egyptian gods as they were false gods and/or idols. Today children are taught not to put money, fame, or career over God; do not turn them into a modern version of idols.

612

Ah, but those numbers are skewed by those who have attained higher education (interestingly, they appear to attend church less regularly).

About 60-65% of Christians with at least some college or less education who go to church every week believe in a literal Bible.

In Britain, a quarter of Christians don’t believe the Resurrection actually happened. That’s pretty interesting.
Regardless a Levite Hypothesis points to man invented religion, not a Good who actually exists.

613

It follows a mold of human understanding of God. Do you people even read the Bible?

  1. Humans saw the divine spark within themselves (made in the image and likeness of God as related in the creation story).

  2. Seeing God in another human being. (Note the story of God talking to Abraham. It clearly states that Abraham thought he was talking with a human being.) It wasn’t until later that Abraham came to the realization that it was the word of God in that human who was speaking to him.

  3. With Moses we see human thought changing once again. God appears in another form (fire) or distantly, on the top of a mountain.

  4. Next, we have God existing more in the heavens while still existing in the midst of people/creation here on earth. Note Jesus rising up into heaven…yet near the same time…

  5. The Holy Spirit descends to earth.

As I have recently noted at least twice, human understanding of God has evolved in the same manner human understanding of science and physical matter has evolved.

Culture thousands of years ago was very different than it is today. We do well to keep that in mind.

614

Yes I read the Bible. There is nothing in what you just wrote here that in any ways shows God is not a human invention.

It’s just a story outline.

615

I have the same experiences…and it happens often. Sometimes I wonder if I’m doing The Lord’s Will for my life? Then…something happens that’s so unusual, so uncanny that it leaves me amazed. Over the years I have labeled it; breadcrumbs of blessed assurance. If you remember the story Hansel and Gretel…it’s something like that? These are things that you can’t call a miracle but the probability is extremely remote. I believe it’s The Lord’s way of assuring me, I am on the right path.

616

Human invention? Or, does it tally more with human experiences?

617

It may be a story outline, but is from being ‘just’ a story outline.

618

What would the difference look like, and how would that prove the experiences were of something real?

619

Do you know when you invent something? Start there. Then compare and contrast that with experiencing something–even something as simple as experiencing a cold. Can you tell which you invented and which you experienced?

620

You can experience a lot of things…that doesn’t mean there’s an actual being on the other end of the experience that you are feeling.

So men had mystical experiences and invented stories to explain them.

621

True, sometimes we just talk to ourselves. Other times we can be directed to do something that has nothing to do with talking to oneself, because self has no knowledge of it–not even subconsciously.