Do progressives believe in civil liberties?

[JayJay]

@bootz

what question did you ask

How have we in the past have decided what’s best for communities in those cases where we had to?

[bootz]

Did Indians ever kill settlers? or did settlers only kill native americans?

but according to you government payment for scalps was a good thing to create social cohesion,

explain all the trading the colonists did with Indian Tribes. don’t narrow your scope.

[AngraMainyu]

Of course they killed settlers, they also married them and traded with them. I’m not impressed with civil liberties as a concept, as it mostly applies to privileged classes, not the Indian or the expendable.

[WildRose]

Both have their drawbacks and there’s always a balancing act between individual rights and community interests.

Humans are social creatures as a rule by nature and Isolation tends to have bad results for most.

Unlike most countries we have specific protections on individual liberty and rights but the courts and legislatures just keep eating away at them in the name of the public good.

[bootz]

so you think totalitarianism is better than liberty for the bulk of the population.

give examples of how please.

[AngraMainyu]

I don’t think one is better than another, necessarily. Given the circumstances, a people may demand liberty or its restriction, within their own lifetime.

[WuWei]

@bootz

lynching’s effect the lynched more than the community

Damn! That escalated quickly!

[WuWei]

@AngraMainyu

It strengthens bonds. From the lynchings in the south to head hunting in the phillipines, they all fulfill the roles of cohesion and power structure consolidation.
The power of these activities affect an individual in a strictly somatic sense, but by no means does that mean community sacrifice is rendered purely metaphysical.

What about the lynchings in the north?

[WuWei]

@bootz

in your example you now advocate for the trail of tears. You really are on a streak here.

perhaps we should kill 4 billion so 3 billion can remain.

No. That’s a strawman. @AngraMainyu is correct.

[WuWei]

@AngraMainyu

No. I wouldn’t. Though many cultured, educated, and “enlightened” can be swept up in the same amoral bloodlust as the most isolated tribe in the Amazon.
Recognizing this tendency is not celebratory, rather it’s the first step in any social architects toolkit to implementing change.

Can you give an example of a social architect in this context please?

[JayJay]

@bootz

if pedophilia and incest were common would that make them good?

I am by no means saying that your type of apologism does not exist, I am simply saying it is meaningless as it accepts all things are ok and there is no good or bad,

for you murder is ok, massacre is ok, plague and germ warfare are ok, but what end do you pursue chairman Mao.

You’re making an assumption that Angra always values the community above the individual when it’s clear that’s not the case.

You’re arguing a straw man.

Your own assumption crept right into the argument without you even noticing.

It’s an insidious thing…personal bias.

[AngraMainyu]

A missionary or commisar.

[WuWei]

@AngraMainyu

A missionary or commisar.

Thanks.

[AngraMainyu]

I’d add those as well, as well as captive sacrifice by the Dahomey.

[Samson_Corwell]

@WuWei

@JayJay

The answer to the question in the OP is neither individual liberty nor community are the priority.

Interesting. I don’t think you feel that for a minute.

How come? And what do you think he feels?

[WuWei]

@Samson_Corwell

@WuWei

@JayJay

The answer to the question in the OP is neither individual liberty nor community are the priority.

Interesting. I don’t think you feel that for a minute.

How come? And what do you think he feels?

Collective first. He’s a good citizen.

[JayJay]

@WuWei

@Samson_Corwell

@WuWei

@JayJay

The answer to the question in the OP is neither individual liberty nor community are the priority.

Interesting. I don’t think you feel that for a minute.

How come? And what do you think he feels?

Collective first. He’s a good citizen.

“First” is not the right word.

Neither is primary is a better way to put it.

[WuWei]

@JayJay

@WuWei

@Samson_Corwell

@WuWei

@JayJay

The answer to the question in the OP is neither individual liberty nor community are the priority.

Interesting. I don’t think you feel that for a minute.

How come? And what do you think he feels?

Collective first. He’s a good citizen.

“First” is not the right word.

Neither is primary is a better way to put it.

Horse ■■■■ Jay. You are the epitome of Greater Good Guy. Wear it like a badge.

[WuWei]

@JayJay

“First” is not the right word.

Neither is primary is a better way to put it.

What is the purpose of “society”?

[JayJay]

@WuWei

@JayJay

@WuWei

@Samson_Corwell

@WuWei

@JayJay

The answer to the question in the OP is neither individual liberty nor community are the priority.

Interesting. I don’t think you feel that for a minute.

How come? And what do you think he feels?

Collective first. He’s a good citizen.

“First” is not the right word.

Neither is primary is a better way to put it.

Horse ■■■■ Jay. You are the epitome of Greater Good Guy. Wear it like a badge.

That’s too simplistic.

Only a “greater good guy” when I have to be.