Division and Unification

Bill.in.PA · 2021-10-01T14:35:52.851Z

The world has been turned upside down in recent decades.

The US fought World War II to save Christian civilization from the Nazis. The Cold War was to save the world from god-less Communism.

The Soviet Union locked up and killed millions of Christians for going to church or openly opposing militant atheism. Churches were destroyed or converted to factories, stables, etc.

Now it has flipped. Russia has rebuilt its churches and abandoned state atheism. Western countries are now the ones closing and vandalizing churches. Russia and eastern European countries are now considered uniquely evil by western elites since they have not abandoned traditional Christian morality.

Differences between Christians become less important if we all end up sharing the same gulags.

Meriweather · 2021-10-01T14:48:06.197Z

Optrader:

and tell people they CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!

This is not true. Not once has anyone said this to us in school or church.

Meriweather · 2021-10-01T14:55:26.364Z

Optrader:

I notice you claim that only the incredulous beliefs of fundamentalists may be stumbling stones that keep people from accepting the truths of the Bible. Does this line of thinking apply to the belief that a wafer and jug of wine are transformed into the actual human flesh and blood of the creator by the prayer of a fallen human being? What would the science you tout reveal of the wafer and wine after a priests prayer as opposed to before his prayer? Might such a belief be a stumbling block to the ignorant masses?

First, I don’t refer to anyone as ‘ignorant masses’; that is degrading. Second, we are taught the Eucharists retains all elements of bread and wine. It is a matter of faith that Jesus is present as he promised.

Meanwhile, some Fundamentalist do go against the science of a young earth. The Eucharist does not go against scientific reality. Young Earth does, despite science, despite passages in the Old Testament where a ‘day’ is used as a long period time, not just 24 hours. If you were to say, “In my grandfather’s day…” do you really expect people to conclude your grandfather lived only one day?

Catholics, for centuries, have left science to scientists and stick with teaching faith, and that has worked well.

SixFoot · 2021-10-01T14:58:51.272Z

@Meriweather , I just wanted to repeat how respected and valued your views are here. A lot of us greatly appreciate these conversations with you.

Optrader · 2021-10-01T15:02:10.370Z

Bill.in.PA:

The world has been turned upside down in recent decades.

The US fought World War II to save Christian civilization from the Nazis. The Cold War was to save the world from god-less Communism.

The Soviet Union locked up and killed millions of Christians for going to church or openly opposing militant atheism. Churches were destroyed or converted to factories, stables, etc.

Now it has flipped. Russia has rebuilt its churches and abandoned state atheism. Western countries are now the ones closing and vandalizing churches. Russia and eastern European countries are now considered uniquely evil by western elites since they have not abandoned traditional Christian morality.

Differences between Christians become less important if we all end up sharing the same gulags.

Jesus said as he was hated, Christians will be hated for his names sake. Here in the US, Christians are not being killed or jailed for their faith, YET, but we are being silenced, discredited and ridiculed now, so that when the real persecution comes, society will already have been conditioned to not only accept it, but to believe we deserve it. Absolutely, Christianity is spreading in other parts around the world and it isn’t completely dead here either. Jesus said the Gospel will be preached and spread around the world before he returns and I believe the United States was raised up at just the right time in history to spearhead that spreading. Today, America has pretty much forsaken God and we are paying a heavy price as evidenced by the Satanic imbecile in the White House and the brain dead millions that support him and his agenda.
Buckle up- It’s going to get real bumpy before the ride ends…

Bill.in.PA · 2021-10-01T15:49:02.602Z

My pastor comes from western Ukraine, and he grew up in the Soviet Union. Our church was outlawed and went underground for 40 years. He tells stories about holding services in secret with people on the look out for police.

All religions were persecuted. Being seen attending religious services would mean that you lose your job, lose the ability to travel or live a city, and your children would not get into college. Educating your children in religion was illegal.

Catholics and Baptists were among those singled out for especially harsh treatment. Many were executed or sent to prisons in Siberia.

It is especially chilling to see how easily governments in the US and Canada have ended civil liberties under the pretext of COVID controls. Persecution of Christians is coming if we do not change course.

Polish Pastor Chases Cops Out of Church on Easter Weekend: ‘Get Out! You Nazis!’ - YouTube

Optrader · 2021-10-01T15:49:44.513Z

Meriweather:

Optrader:

and tell people they CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!

This is not true. Not once has anyone said this to us in school or church.

I was channeling Jack Nicholson there, but it got lost in the typing.

Not handle isn’t quite the sentiment, but not understand. Although I can’t help being pictured, upon gaining understanding from a Rabbi, like a child that just learned the Easter Bunny isn’t real… Children are ignorant Meri, and need to be “taught” by a grown up things they don’t understand….

rp5x5 · 2021-10-01T15:56:19.386Z

It is true that it is absurd to water down teachings to make them more palatable for the imagined, average person, but it is equally absurd to present certain things in a way that makes the average, intellectual-type person who believes in science, to think religious people are delusional, misguided idiots who believe fairy tales.

At the same time, it is arrogant to present science as anything more than a materialistic, completely primitive understanding of reality as it is. Science cannot explain anything and dogmatically ridicules anything not called science.

In truth, schismatic division in science is just as prevalent as division, between different religions, as well as within the same sect.

Unity is important, but unity can be of different types–from a good kind of unity to an evil kind of unity.

The Buddhist Sanskrit term,“Icchantika,” is translated as “people of incorrigible disbelief,” and not until the Saddharma Pundarika sutra did the Buddha Shakyamuni ever announce that they too could attain salvation, reach the state of Bodhisattva and even Buddhahood, either this lifetime or in a future lifetime.

The time period known as the latter day refers to a period of time 2000 years after the passing of a Buddha’s turning wheel of the law. After the period of the real and then, the counterfeit dharma passes, Buddhism becomes lost to the beings–the Latter Day. When the time is right, a Buddha returns.

The importance of the “time” and 'capacity of the people" determines the fertility of the seed of buddhahood within the people.

Strike when the iron is hot.

Meriweather · 2021-10-01T16:46:18.759Z

Thank you, SixFoot. I enjoy the study of religion, but fear I know just enough to make everyone mad. Including Catholics.

Optrader · 2021-10-01T18:46:36.762Z

Meriweather:

Optrader:

I notice you claim that only the incredulous beliefs of fundamentalists may be stumbling stones that keep people from accepting the truths of the Bible. Does this line of thinking apply to the belief that a wafer and jug of wine are transformed into the actual human flesh and blood of the creator by the prayer of a fallen human being? What would the science you tout reveal of the wafer and wine after a priests prayer as opposed to before his prayer? Might such a belief be a stumbling block to the ignorant masses?

First, I don’t refer to anyone as ‘ignorant masses’; that is degrading. Second, we are taught the Eucharists retains all elements of bread and wine. It is a matter of faith that Jesus is present as he promised.

Meanwhile, some Fundamentalist do go against the science of a young earth. The Eucharist does not go against scientific reality. Young Earth does, despite science, despite passages in the Old Testament where a ‘day’ is used as a long period time, not just 24 hours. If you were to say, “In my grandfather’s day…” do you really expect people to conclude your grandfather lived only one day?

Catholics, for centuries, have left science to scientists and stick with teaching faith, and that has worked well.

“Ignorant masses” is only degrading if you look down on them, which I don’t believe you do. It is , however, not only accurate but exactly as those in power regard people. Mass psychology has been understood and used for a long time by powerful people to stay in power. It is made much easier though if the powerful can keep the masses they wish to control from being exposed to education. How do you think Democrats get so many young people to vote for them? By having control over the public school system for decades. This also explains why they keep wanting to get their claws on our kids at a younger and younger age. The younger they are when their little brains and ability to reason are destroyed, the easier it is for them to be manipulated and remain as ignorant.

For many centuries, at least in western history, the peasants were illiterate. By design or circumstance doesn’t much matter because the result was the same. Powerful people maintained power because the masses had no access to any point of view other than what was forced upon them. I can’t think of a more accurate way to describe the situation.

So, a young earth goes against Science but the Eucharist doesn’t?

Meriweather · 2021-10-01T20:59:21.940Z

Optrader:

So, a young earth goes against Science but the Eucharist doesn’t?

Both people of faith and atheists scientists agree the elements of the bread and wine remain the same. The nourishment is spiritual, and many Catholics can tell you the blessings that spiritual nourishment from the living Christ brings. Science may not be able to tell us it is the living Christ, but it is what Catholics have always believed–and with good reason I feel.

Optrader · 2021-10-01T23:17:34.607Z

Meriweather:

Optrader:

So, a young earth goes against Science but the Eucharist doesn’t?

Both people of faith and atheists scientists agree the elements of the bread and wine remain the same. The nourishment is spiritual, and many Catholics can tell you the blessings that spiritual nourishment from the living Christ brings. Science may not be able to tell us it is the living Christ, but it is what Catholics have always believed–and with good reason I feel.

Meri, Jesus said where two or more are gathered in my name, I am among them. This I believe, and I absolutely understand the need for Spiritual nourishment even above physical nourishment. I am truly glad you find it.

For me, I need something rock solid I can count on and since I can’t have a one on one discussion or question and answer session with the Lord I turn to the one thing that always gives me strength and hope, that being his word. I am going through a tremendous battle right now and when I read your post I took it as flippant and personal. I know you are neither of these things, but nevertheless I reacted the way I am too prone to do, which is to come out guns blazing looking for someone to take my frustrations out on.

As I publicly took it out on you, I publicly offer a sincere apology. I’ll try not to be such a total jerk in the future…

rp5x5 · 2021-10-01T23:33:08.560Z

Optrader:

the need for Spiritual nourishment even above physical nourishment. I am truly glad you find it.

The recent Netflix series “Midnight Mass” as bizarre as it is, revives a whole “new” dark, weird interpretation of the Eucharist. Silly but entertaining.

Worth seeing anyway.

Optrader · 2021-10-01T23:40:40.123Z

rp5x5:

Optrader:

the need for Spiritual nourishment even above physical nourishment. I am truly glad you find it.

The recent Netflix series “Midnight Mass” as bizarre as it is, revives a whole “new” dark, weird interpretation of the Eucharist. Silly but entertaining.

Worth seeing anyway.

Thanks, I could use something something entertaining. Maybe it will drive away my frustration for awhile…

Meriweather · 2021-10-01T23:55:43.777Z

Optrader:

I am going through a tremendous battle right now and when I read your post I took it as flippant and personal.

I am sorry to hear about your own battle, and you are immediately in my prayers. Also, no apology needed. I recognized then I had carelessly trod on a deeply held belief/faith like the proverbial bull in the China shop. You immediately presented your side, and it has been very good for me to hear. We both strongly believe in faith, and I’ve always considered you one of my brethren in Christ, which we are and remain even though we see things so very differently. That’s not bad.

rp5x5 · 2021-10-01T23:55:57.661Z

Just don’t take it seriously but it does invoke funny thoughts.

SixFoot · 2021-10-02T00:16:41.198Z

Meriweather:

Thank you, SixFoot. I enjoy the study of religion, but fear I know just enough to make everyone mad. Including Catholics.

Then you’re doin’ it right.

Meriweather · 2021-10-02T00:22:07.062Z

SixFoot:

Then you’re doin’ it right.

It may be I am missing a couple of vital pieces. For example, I can’t meme (and I am not even a liberal) and I can’t sing. That saying, “I am not a complete idiot–some parts of me are missing,” has a soulmate in me.

I am a big fan of your memes. Wouldn’t miss a one of them.

Optrader · 2021-10-02T02:12:50.634Z

Meriweather:

Optrader:

I am going through a tremendous battle right now and when I read your post I took it as flippant and personal.

I am sorry to hear about your own battle, and you are immediately in my prayers. Also, no apology needed. I recognized then I had carelessly trod on a deeply held belief/faith like the proverbial bull in the China shop. You immediately presented your side, and it has been very good for me to hear. We both strongly believe in faith, and I’ve always considered you one of my brethren in Christ, which we are and remain even though we see things so very differently. That’s not bad.

Thank you, I appreciate your prayers and Christian beliefs. You are a great defender of your faith. We have many beliefs in common so I will keep those in mind rather than our differences and try and confine my ire to those who truly deserve it, like LIBS… just kidding. My wife and I changed churches in June and our new Pastor prays for our political leaders, ( of BOTH parties) that they will accept Jesus as savior and begin making wise decisions that are good for America. He finishes with “ and replace them with leaders who will if they don’t “

I’m learning to make the same prayer when my anger at what they’re doing starts getting the better of me. It helps when I consider my own decades of blindness and that my sins put Christ on the cross too, so I’ll probably return to my self imposed exile until my concern for their souls overwhelms my anger at their deeds. You’ll know I succeeded when you see pigs begin to fly, kinda like Clarence trying to earn his wings…Peace and Blessings to you and your family!

Optrader · 2021-10-02T02:40:19.410Z

Bill.in.PA:

My pastor comes from western Ukraine, and he grew up in the Soviet Union. Our church was outlawed and went underground for 40 years. He tells stories about holding services in secret with people on the look out for police.

All religions were persecuted. Being seen attending religious services would mean that you lose your job, lose the ability to travel or live a city, and your children would not get into college. Educating your children in religion was illegal.

Catholics and Baptists were among those singled out for especially harsh treatment. Many were executed or sent to prisons in Siberia.

It is especially chilling to see how easily governments in the US and Canada have ended civil liberties under the pretext of COVID controls. Persecution of Christians is coming if we do not change course.

Polish Pastor Chases Cops Out of Church on Easter Weekend: ‘Get Out! You Nazis!’ - YouTube

You have quite a different perspective on persecution than American Christians who haven’t heard or experienced first hand what you have. I do believe persecution is coming and Christians in other countries are already being killed for their faith. I believe we are close to the Rapture and that Most Christians, at least in America, will be spared the worst, but the things Jesus said to look for right before his return are happening, and quickly. How many of our freedoms will we lose while waiting? Our government is going to use every excuse and too many people will willingly comply.

Personally, I’m praying for the best but preparing for the worst. One of our forum members has even kindly agreed to take care of my dogs in case I get raptured away, I’m as prepared as I can be no matter the timing…