Denmark's free college has created "eternity students" who never graduate

westaussie · 2021-03-18T13:31:08.836Z

That was not the point I was making. Quite clearly there are a significant number of people who choose a specific career not on the basis of salary.

zantax · 2021-03-18T13:34:20.782Z

I could have easily completed k-12 in two or three years. Five tops. Probably less as I have seen people go from nothing but the ability to read to GED in a year. K-12 in America is by and large a babysitting service.

Eagle-Keeper · 2021-03-18T13:37:43.881Z

westaussie:

That was not the point I was making. Quite clearly there are a significant number of people who choose a specific career not on the basis of salary.

When you word it like that you make it sound like they don’t care about their salary. The reality is that there are ONLY so many jobs available that pay higher end salaries. I don’t know of a single person who went the math/science route that would NOT want salaries more comparable to that of an engineer. The reality is that there are only a limited number of those jobs.

westaussie · 2021-03-18T13:41:11.823Z

What I am saying unequivocally is that people go into professions like nursing and teaching for reasons other than what their salary is going to be.

Eagle-Keeper · 2021-03-18T13:44:15.527Z

zantax:

I could have easily completed k-12 in two or three years. Five tops. Probably less as I have seen people go from nothing but the ability to read to GED in a year. K-12 in America is by and large a babysitting service.

I speak from actual experience and this was from working in a middle-upper middleclass school, believe me it’s much worse in the inner city schools. For many students high school is little more than a four year holding pattern to avoid the realities of life.

zantax · 2021-03-18T13:47:02.228Z

School was 12 years of excruciating boredom for me. Hated every minute of it. College was at least interesting and mildly challenging.

Eagle-Keeper · 2021-03-18T14:07:41.484Z

westaussie:

What I am saying unequivocally is that people go into professions like nursing and teaching for reasons other than what their salary is going to be.

Look I don’t know what it’s like in Australia, but all I can tell you is that in a state like NJ, one HAS to consider salary if they have dreams of not living with their parents forever and getting married and having a family. To be fair though I do know men in their 60’s who have not worked a steady job in their entire life, and consequently have never moved out of their parents house.

Liberty323 · 2021-03-18T16:08:27.728Z

Jezcoe:

Samm:

Jezcoe:

And I am talking about how costs have risen out of control and the value of the education itself.

But that goes back to your response about “useless degrees” which is what I was talking about.

To which I am arguing that the idea that a degree is “useless” is subjective.

Should a degree be wildly expensive?

I don’t see why it should be.

I’m in total agreement with you. I got out of school in '96 before prices skyrocketed. I think the schools began raising their prices for degrees simply because they could. With student loans available to anybody the colleges knew they would get their money whether the students found lucrative employment or not. If someone wants to get a LA degree because they love the subject, fine, but don’t make them have to mortgage their future for it. This is why I think colleges are just a racket these days.
If they were only $20,000 in the hole after graduating with a LA degree that wouldn’t be so bad, but having to pay 6 figures back in loans is ridiculous. I think schools should charge based on the employability forecasts for the majors. A philosophy degree should not be as expensive as a nuclear engineering degree.

zantax · 2021-03-18T16:15:53.033Z

Prices in 96 for state schools was 11k, rounded, now 20k also rounded, doesn’t seem extreme to me for it to double over twenty years. What did a car cost back then? How about a house?

zantax · 2021-03-18T16:17:49.572Z

By the way, it’s a lot cheaper if you pay when your kid is born, costs you a fraction of the price if you let
market gains accumulate for 18 years.

Liberty323 · 2021-03-18T16:23:19.314Z

Well then it must be the room, meals, and books that have quadrupled because prices are insane now. Where I went we had to live on campus our first year regardless of age or grade. I was a junior. When I graduated I only owed about $12,000 total which I paid off in about 5 years. Now, kids I know who go to the same school are owing about 80k after graduation. It’s coming from somewhere.
Something that made a HUGE difference for me was going to a local community college my freshman and sophomore years. They were completely paid for before transferring to the 4 year university.

zantax · 2021-03-18T16:27:42.435Z

Liberty323:

Well then it must be the room, meals, and books that have quadrupled because prices are insane now. Where I went we had to live on campus our first year regardless of age or grade. I was a junior. When I graduated I only owed about $12,000 total which I paid off in about 5 years. Now, kids I know who go to the same school are owing about 80k after graduation. It’s coming from somewhere.
Something that made a HUGE difference for me was going to a local community college my freshman and sophomore years. They were completely paid for before transferring to the 4 year university.

Then don’t compare what you paid to four years of living on campus. And those prices were tuition, fees and room and board.

nces.ed.gov

Fast Facts: Tuition costs of colleges and universities (76)

The NCES Fast Facts Tool provides quick answers to many education questions (National Center for Education Statistics). Get answers on Early Childhood Education, Elementary and Secondary Education and Higher Education here.

The real explosion in cost are top tier and private schools, not state colleges unless it’s an ivy. And that is due to demand. Lot more people going to college these days.

Liberty323 · 2021-03-18T16:49:14.100Z

But don’t you think the easier availability to student loans has helped to drive the demand? I remember when prospective students actually had to face a little scrutiny to qualify for student loans. Now all you have to have is a hs diploma.

zantax · 2021-03-18T16:57:27.208Z

Liberty323:

But don’t you think the easier availability to student loans has helped to drive the demand? I remember when prospective students actually had to face a little scrutiny to qualify for student loans. Now all you have to have is a hs diploma.

Sure but mostly at the private college level, state school prices are regulated. And still a good bargain if you ask me, more so if you do the first two years at community college. Not very far out of line from what I paid in the early nineties when adjusted for inflation. Ivy and private though, through the roof.

Jezcoe · 2021-03-18T17:19:05.473Z

Liberty323:

Well then it must be the room, meals, and books that have quadrupled because prices are insane now. Where I went we had to live on campus our first year regardless of age or grade. I was a junior. When I graduated I only owed about $12,000 total which I paid off in about 5 years. Now, kids I know who go to the same school are owing about 80k after graduation. It’s coming from somewhere.
Something that made a HUGE difference for me was going to a local community college my freshman and sophomore years. They were completely paid for before transferring to the 4 year university.

I looked up my alma mater. Price per credit hour has quadrupled since I went there and it is a State school.

zantax · 2021-03-18T17:20:06.513Z

Jezcoe:

Liberty323:

Well then it must be the room, meals, and books that have quadrupled because prices are insane now. Where I went we had to live on campus our first year regardless of age or grade. I was a junior. When I graduated I only owed about $12,000 total which I paid off in about 5 years. Now, kids I know who go to the same school are owing about 80k after graduation. It’s coming from somewhere.
Something that made a HUGE difference for me was going to a local community college my freshman and sophomore years. They were completely paid for before transferring to the 4 year university.

I looked up my alma mater. Price per credit hour has quadrupled since I went there and it is a State school.

Let me guess, Penn?

Jezcoe · 2021-03-18T17:20:34.092Z

zantax:

Jezcoe:

Liberty323:

Well then it must be the room, meals, and books that have quadrupled because prices are insane now. Where I went we had to live on campus our first year regardless of age or grade. I was a junior. When I graduated I only owed about $12,000 total which I paid off in about 5 years. Now, kids I know who go to the same school are owing about 80k after graduation. It’s coming from somewhere.
Something that made a HUGE difference for me was going to a local community college my freshman and sophomore years. They were completely paid for before transferring to the 4 year university.

I looked up my alma mater. Price per credit hour has quadrupled since I went there and it is a State school.

Let me guess, Penn?

Nope.

zantax · 2021-03-18T17:21:11.231Z

Public ivy though, right?

Jezcoe · 2021-03-18T17:24:23.544Z

zantax:

Public ivy though, right?

Nope. State school.

zantax · 2021-03-18T17:28:41.755Z

Jezcoe:

zantax:

Public ivy though, right?

Nope. State school.

Then you are old or an anomaly.