Dad leaves Liz speechless

[WildRose]

The end result of that would be dramatically higher interest rates and much more restrictive lending criteria on student loans.

[Smyrna]

@Auto129

If it does not cost you any tax dollars, how would you feel about debt relief? If there were no checks, no tax credits, and just a changing of the law that allows the loans to be adjusted or discharged in bankruptcy more easily, does that change your stance?

I would consider that but here’s what I also want included…half…gets charged back the educational institution in which this was originally paid. They share…equally…in this loss.

[JayJay]

@WildRose

Farmers do that every day. The Trade war was bankrupting them and the right thing to do was to use the tariff money to make them whole.

■■■■■■■■■

They should have been paying attention and been ready for this eventuality.

And actually we’ve been subsidizing farmers for years (well not really them…they’re just an intermediary).

Why should my tax dollars go to that?

As usual…selective outrage. Stuff is getting handed out to the “right people”, so it’s bad.

When handouts go to the “right people”, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it.

[JayJay]

@Smyrna

@JayJay

Farmers should have done that. Are you outraged Trump used your tax dollars to bail them out?

Did they give their best efforts? Anyone who, after giving their best efforts…needs help, I’m for helping them. The problem is that the financial help all to often comes without the recipient having given their best efforts first.

How do you define “best efforts”?

How do you know the people Warren is thinking of helping haven’t given “their best efforts”?

[WildRose]

The farmers actually earn it.

[Smyrna]

@JayJay

How do you define “best efforts”?

How do you know the people Warren is thinking of helping haven’t given “their best efforts”?

I’d let those working with the farmers determine that.

I don’t know that they haven’t but I also KNOW they all haven’t. There must be a process put in place to determine that.

[Auto129]

They earned it only by voting.

[WildRose]

They earn it by keeping this nation and a good deal of the world fed at a lower cost than anywhere else in the industrialized world.

[Auto129]

I would be fine with that. Without special government rules making those chargebacks unable to be discharged in bankruptcy, I have no objection to lenders and schools litigating against each other over the money.

[Smyrna]

@Auto129

I would be fine with that. Without special government rules making those chargebacks unable to be discharged in bankruptcy, I have no objection to lenders and schools litigating against each other over the money.

There’s a reasonable solution here and bankruptcy laws should apply to student debt. That debt is no different than any other and shouldn’t be treated differently.

[Auto129]

No, they actually earned it by voting. They earned their subsidies by influencing the central government with votes.

They use arguments like yours to multiply their influence, but there is no mechanism that generates subsidies based on how noble or useful a profession is to society.

[WildRose]

Only if we’re willing to accept the consequences.

Much higher interest rates and it would be much harder to qualify for loans at all if we go back to that model.

[Forcefield]

We should never consider changing anything without considering retroactively changing it infinitely backwards forever for everyone. Or something.

[WildRose]

If that were true every group that votes would be getting bailouts.

They earn it by doing exactly what I said.

[Auto129]

Not every group is as effective at multipling their voting influence as farmers are.

There is no other mechanism to get benefits from the central government than votes.

[Smyrna]

@WildRose

Only if we’re willing to accept the consequences.

Much higher interest rates and it would be much harder to qualify for loans at all if we go back to that model.

That would mean that the loan was initiated “differently” and again…if it’s subject to the same bankruptcy laws, the process that initiates this loan must also be the same. If…a potential recipient receives a special treatment, then it should be treated differently with this same recipient knowing that this reduced cost loan does not receive the same bankruptcy protection?

What I’m seeing is that there’s no prior thought to costs, until it has to be repaid. Then it’s like a lightbulb went off in the recipients head when they now understand the personal sacrifices necessary to repay this loan. Their maturity comes about way too late and they then expect someone else to pay for their mistakes. There should be some sort of mandatory financial counseling that follows their educational experience.

[WildRose]

The entire farm program was initiated as an emergency measure for national security first during WWI and then during WWII, not because of “votes”.

[JayJay]

@WildRose

They earn it by keeping this nation and a good deal of the world fed at a lower cost than anywhere else in the industrialized world.

They did this for years without being subsidized.

Of course, there’s a REASON they’re subsidized…the subsidy is actually a handout to someone other than the farmers…

[toreyj01]

@WuWei

I’m ok with that. I would also allow deduction of 50% of housing expenses.

Why not all of it? It’s an expense. Books too.

[WildRose]

I borrowed a total of 12 to get through under grad and grad school and paid 10 or 12% on all of the loans. Just the interest rates alone were enough to make one think long and hard about even applying.

I’m not opposed to going back to that era for how student loans should be treated I’m just pointing out that to get there we have to accept the cost.