Court rules for deaf student in education-law case

zantax · 2023-03-22T00:09:17.791Z

TheDoctorIsIn:

Ben_Natuf:

pulls at the heart strings, but I’m not sure how I feel about this. Seems to me having your own personal interpreter is a bit more than “reasonable” accommodation. Not going to judge it, have to mull it over a bit.

A sign-language interpreter is absolutely a “reasonable accommodation” for a deaf student - there’s plenty of case law on that already - but that’s not the question the Court was answering.

The ruling was a lot more procedural and technical - whether the student’s failure to exhaust his administrative remedies precludes his federal suit for damages (for the failure to provide an effective RA).

The court held that he was not precluded from filing for damages.

No it’s not at all reasonable. text to speech can be done by a computer for a fraction of the cost. Guess this is a product of the Justices being old farts.

TheDoctorIsIn · 2023-03-22T00:13:59.228Z

zantax:

No it’s not at all reasonable. text to speech can be done by a computer for a fraction of the cost. Guess this is a product of the Justices being old farts.

Text-to-speech does not accomplish anything for deaf people.

And automating speech to text is staggeringly unreliable.

mot1man · 2023-03-22T01:33:35.844Z

So closed captioning sucks?

Supreme_War_Pig · 2023-03-22T01:38:18.557Z

mot1man:

So closed captioning sucks?

Somebody still has to interpret and load it up…all during a live lecture.

Seems that a competent interpreter is probably the better bet

TheDoctorIsIn · 2023-03-22T01:40:48.415Z

mot1man:

So closed captioning sucks?

Yes - auto-generated (live) closed captions is awful.

Although some times it works out hilariously, like when the closed captioning of a House committee broadcast renamed Pat Cippiloni as “Patsy Baloney”

patsybaloney5701233×800 50.9 KB

TheDoctorIsIn · 2023-03-22T01:41:57.316Z

Supreme_War_Pig:

Somebody still has to interpret and load it up…all during a live lecture.

Seems that a competent interpreter is probably the better bet

There was no video feed involved in most of my high school classes.

Safiel · 2023-03-22T01:42:05.706Z

zantax:

TheDoctorIsIn:

Ben_Natuf:

pulls at the heart strings, but I’m not sure how I feel about this. Seems to me having your own personal interpreter is a bit more than “reasonable” accommodation. Not going to judge it, have to mull it over a bit.

A sign-language interpreter is absolutely a “reasonable accommodation” for a deaf student - there’s plenty of case law on that already - but that’s not the question the Court was answering.

The ruling was a lot more procedural and technical - whether the student’s failure to exhaust his administrative remedies precludes his federal suit for damages (for the failure to provide an effective RA).

The court held that he was not precluded from filing for damages.

No it’s not at all reasonable. text to speech can be done by a computer for a fraction of the cost. Guess this is a product of the Justices being old farts.

Not at all.

The question the Justices answered is not directly related to the issue of sign language.

It was purely a legal question.

Does failure to pursue administrative remedies under IDEA preclude relief under ADA???

The Justices ruled that since IDEA does not provide the relief the Plaintiffs/Petitioners are seeking, relief under ADA is not precluded.

When Jackson, Sotomayor, Alito and Thomas agree on something (along with the other 5) it is a pretty good bet the right decision was reached.

Supreme_War_Pig · 2023-03-22T01:44:17.844Z

It’s just weird the lengths some people go to maintain that government can’t do any good for people. Anywhere or anytime.

STODR · 2023-03-22T02:24:56.279Z

No one said that but you. Why lie?

Supreme_War_Pig · 2023-03-22T02:32:44.362Z

STODR:

No one said that but you. Why lie?

Please. Useless government is right-wing canard

STODR · 2023-03-22T09:16:58.429Z

Please yourself. You continue to show absolute ignorance of what the right wing wants. You always fall back to your fantasy interpretation of it.

Supreme_War_Pig · 2023-03-22T11:51:38.447Z

Sure, sure. Literal decades of the same message, including post after post on this very website, and I don’t know what the right wing wants.

STODR · 2023-03-22T11:55:04.669Z

No you don’t. You get it wrong every day. Your are amazingly consistent. Link to one post saying the Government is useless in everything it does. Should be easy for you to find.

zantax · 2023-03-22T12:08:20.812Z

TheDoctorIsIn:

zantax:

No it’s not at all reasonable. text to speech can be done by a computer for a fraction of the cost. Guess this is a product of the Justices being old farts.

Text-to-speech does not accomplish anything for deaf people.

And automating speech to text is staggeringly unreliable.

So I guess Fetterman can’t really do his job?

zantax · 2023-03-22T12:10:21.309Z

TheDoctorIsIn:

mot1man:

So closed captioning sucks?

Yes - auto-generated (live) closed captions is awful.

Although some times it works out hilariously, like when the closed captioning of a House committee broadcast renamed Pat Cippiloni as “Patsy Baloney”

patsybaloney5701233×800 50.9 KB

And yet you somehow knew her last name wasn’t Baloney.

Guvnah · 2023-03-22T15:00:54.152Z

TheDoctorIsIn:

Yes - auto-generated (live) closed captions is awful.

Wouldn’t say it’s awful. It probably gets 90% right. But sometimes the 10% ends up either being comical, or absolutely misleading. Patsy Baloney is a great example of the former.

And the success rate drops dramatically when it is captioning someone with an accent.

When it isn’t being used in a crucial situation (such as mere entertainment, like some sporting event), it’s adequate. Education IS a crucial situation, though.

On the flip side, many times a sign language interpreter can’t keep up with the verbal pace of the person speaking. And it’s even worse when the speaker has an accent. It’s refreshing to see a speaker who is attuned to the fact that he has an interpreter off to the side “speaking” his/her hands off. He will stop and let the interpreter catch up. And that’s often crucial when the subject matter is complex. Point is, the interpreter isn’t the be-all-and-end-all for the deaf person in an educational environment.

Guvnah · 2023-03-22T15:03:12.902Z

Supreme_War_Pig:

It’s just weird the lengths some people go to maintain that government can’t do any good for people. Anywhere or anytime.

Morphed to:

Supreme_War_Pig:

Please. Useless government is right-wing canard

Your goal-post move shows that you know the first statement was a lie.

TheDoctorIsIn · 2023-03-22T15:04:33.651Z

zantax:

And yet you somehow knew her last name wasn’t Baloney.

Well, Pat Cippiloni isn’t a “her,” but yes - I knew what his name really was.

Do you think a 4th-grader would, though?

TheDoctorIsIn · 2023-03-22T15:11:07.672Z

I don’t disagree, and that’s the thing about the laws here - the law promises that disabled students will be provided with the resources needed to fully participate in schools. It does not specify what resources will be provided, because those resources will be different in different situations.

A student may be given a sign-language interpreter for live lecture classes, and then when the class watchs a movie, maybe closed-captioning is sufficient. If the class normally uses oral exams, maybe deaf students will be given a written exam instead as an accommodation.

FreeAndClear · 2023-03-22T15:34:19.006Z

Speech to text using a headset has advanced drastically as compared to an open mic like what is cited in this thread. Not sure if that’s a better solution for a teacher to be walking aorund in a headset but it’s there.