Congratulations Ms/Miss/Mrs Doe it's a boy. Now lets have a discussion


#187

Preserve her health. Did you not read Doe vs. Bolton, on what the definition of ‘health’ is?The analysis is based on the quote from Bolton itself.

BTW, do you think the legislator doesn’t even know what her own bill says? You know better than her>?


#188

all factors — physical, emotional, psychological, familial, and the woman’s age — relevant to the well-being of the patient

That is the meaning of health. Emotion problems, woman too young or too old, psychological issues. All subjective. That is a reason for it to occur.


#189

Doe v Bolton has been on the books since 1979. Maybe you can give some statistics as to how many late term abortions were performed for trivial reasons?

As far as Tran? Even she said she “misspoke.”

When a Republican lawmaker asked during the hearing whether the bill would allow for an abortion to occur when a woman is in labor and about to give birth, Tran said yes.

But on Thursday, Tran, a mother of four, corrected herself. “I should have said: ‘Clearly, no, because infanticide is not allowed in Virginia, and what would have happened in that moment would be a live birth.’ ”


#190

There is 1.3 percent of abortions after 21 weeks, according to the CDC. https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/abortion.htm

The majority of abortions in 2015 took place early in gestation: 91.1% of abortions were performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation; a smaller number of abortions (7.6%) were performed at 14–20 weeks’ gestation, and even fewer (1.3%) were performed at ≥21 weeks’ gestation.

There is about 885,000 abortions every year, or that specific year. 885,000 X 1.3 =11, 505 deaths after 21 weeks. 1.3 percent doesn’t sound like much but that comes out to quite a bit, 11,505. However, unless you say all these professional doctors who said there is absolutely no reason to kill a baby are lying. There is no itemization of the reasons for those 11, 505 abortion murders.


#191

preserve her health, and that includes mental health.


#192

Great. So you’ve said a small percent of abortions are late term. You have no information as to why they were performed or if they were indicated. We’re back to using slippery slope and hypotheticals. Zero objective data to confirm your fears.


#193

What point are you trying to make? That mental health is made up? It’s not real or important? That because we cannot measure mental well being like blood pressure or blood sugar it’s to be dismissed?


#194

I’ve got doctors that said there is no reason to perform abortions, doctors don’t know what they say. All they have to do is deliver the baby, in that last Trimester instead of killing it. You still try to preserve the life, if the baby dies, it dies. They changed the wording as Tran herself reiterated, to exactly open it up to make it easier to kill that baby and you ignore that. Forget about her saying one mistake. Hear the rest of that in the video I gave, it was 6 minutes. Used to be 3 doctors had to verify, now one. Used to be in a hospital in order to do it, now, not so. It used to be ‘severe mental’ issues, now it just ‘mental’ issues. Also Northam specifically lied when he said that more than 1 doctor needs to certify it, there is a need for 3, and it is changing from 3 to 1. And he specifically said ‘not viable or defects’. Heck a defect can be anything. A person missing a finger, a mentally handicapped person, that is totally subjective. Handicapped people. There are some of these conditions that don’t come until the last trimester, and that person can decide to terminate because they don’t want to deal with that. If a mother can not kill a person after the person is born with a defect lets say one year after birth, why is it ok to kill that baby because it is in the womb. 11,505 babies killed by the way is not a small number. Since 11,505 you consider small, that just shows how horrible that murder of 885,000 really is.


#195

So now you’re rapidly alternating between mother’s health and fetal viability. I’ll put my faith in the ACOG over cherry picked OBs any day when it comes to medically justified abortion. The mother’s health and fetal viability both have objective and subjective components. I’ll let the physcian and mother make the decision when things aren’t simple and straightforward.


#196

To bad Fetuses in the womb couldn’t vote.
If they could, the Democratic Politicians would allow them too, and then
they would be against Abortion!!!

Whatever gets them the vote right?


#197

Yet just about every lib on this board who has supported the propriety of 3rd trimester abortions has said things like: “These are babies the mother WANTED and had no choice but to abort because of (this-or-that tragic circumstance) …”

The challenge to reasoning for such abortions should cut both ways.


#198

I don’t recall saying that. I’m not pro-abortion, but I am pro-choice. I’d hope that every pregnancy would be brought to full term if possible. Sometimes it’s not. We have some restrictions in place, but ultimately the choice to have an abortion is not my decision to be made.

If someone wants to make the assertion that otherwise viable late term pregnancies are being aborted without justification, that’s for them to prove.


#199

You are being disingenuous in this OP. The issue is that the child is seriously ill, deformed, or not capable of having any quality of life. Says so right there on your video.

We make decisions like this for the elderly all the time. We make decisions like this for the brain dead all the time. Do you, Snow, know what it does to families who have no recourse but to care for a child with severe cerebral palsy, who can’t even lift his head? I do. Professionally its what i do. Its gut wrenching. These parents have sacrificed everything. They live with the guilt of putting their children through this for 30, 40, 50 years. Not all do of course. But many i know and work with do.

If they had an option to say…i can’t put my child thru this…they should be able to just let them slip away. It is no different then what my mom, sister and I had to decide for my dad 6 months ago. Sure he could still be alive today if we put him on a vent…tubebfed him and all that. But what life is that. The decision we made certainly wasn’t murder, I bear no guilt in my decision.

Your argument is a selfish one. Not that you are selfish, but the argument is. I believe abortion is wrong in a healthy pregnancy. But in these cases like the governor is talking about. It’s up to the individual family…parents to decide.

One the way to the hospital 21 years ago to give birth to our second. I told my wife…anything happens…i save you first. We already were a family. I chose my son having his mommy…not a single dad raising two kids by himself. Gut-wrenching. But that was what we agreed on…and if it came to it. It wasn’t going to be murder like you put it.

A person can’t judge someone on these decisions until they have to make them.

Again. Aborting a healthy fetus is wrong. but not at all what the Governor is talking about.


#200

The key piece of info that gets passed over is that this most horrendous abomination was defeated.

Yea?


#201

What point are you trying to make? That mental health is made up? It’s not real or important? That because we cannot measure mental well being like blood pressure or blood sugar it’s to be dismissed?

The point I am making here is that a mental issue should not be a reason for killing the baby in the womb. Mental issues don’t give a right to kill a person one years old, out of the womb, by what right does a mental issue give one the right to kill a person, in the womb at all, but especially if it is in the third trimester,.


#202

I’m hopeful your comments are because you’ve never been around severe mental illness. So we should force those with severe prenatal depression to carry to term? A suicide during pregnancy means two deaths. Sound good?


#204

Prenatal depression is and can be treated. It is not a death sentence for the baby or the mother. The mother is treated just like any other person with depression. Aborting the baby does not cure the mother of her depression. And if she is going to kill herself she is going to do it nothing anyone does is going to stop her.
So, with your way a baby is going to die for no reason because abortion is not going to cure the mother. My way both would live and the mother would get the treatment she needs.
All your doing by aborting the baby is giving her one more thing to be depressed about. I know a lot of women that are drug addicts, alcoholics. sex addicts, suffering for many forms of mental illness that the root of their illness started from having an abortion.
People act like abortion just solves these women’s problems and they go on and live happily ever after. But, I have seen what effect this one act does to women that we hide under the rug and ignore.


#205

Ok. So pregnant women with severe depression, to the point of suicidal ideation, should be treated. If treatment fails? If they refuse treatment? Let them commit suicide? Forcefully admit them to a psych ward for the duration of their pregnancy and medicate them?


#206

If anyone in America is threatening to kill themselves anyone else can admit them to the hospital and they have to go.

Abortion is almost never the answer.


#207

A pregnant woman goes to her doctor and says — I wasn’t depressed before becoming pregnant. Maybe I was, but now it’s out of control. I’ve tried medication and therapy but they have not helped. I’m not mentally stable enough to continue with pregnancy. I can barely take care of myself right now. If the pregnancy continues, I don’t see any possible way I’d make it. After thinking about it, and living daily with the depression, I no longer want to be pregnant.

The doctor then “pink slips” her and she is forced to be hospitalized in a psychiatric ward until delivery. Not only does her depression continue, she’s now essentially jailed throughout the remainder of her pregnancy.

Sounds wonderful.