Climate change thread of despair

[zantax]

@dantes

I’m far more worried about less sophisticated terrorism such as flying planes into them or detonating bombs.

And who said they can’t be hacked and can’t be melted down via malicious software?

How many times do I have to tell you to read the article, I am growing weary of bringing it here to you every time you ask something it addressed.

[Samm]

@dantes

Not worried about keeping people’s lights on. I’m far more worried about damaging the core of the reactor.

And exactly why do you think a terrorist can do that to one of these reactors more easily than sabotaging a conventional reactor or a non-nuclear generator?

[dantes]

Because it’s harder to defend many dispersed objects than fewer centralized ones.

[dantes]

Because all you do is recite the company line. Do you always believe the promises of these types of companies?

[Samm]

@koushi_shinigami

@dantes

Then what is “it”?

Lawsuits from anti nuke advocates, injunctions to stop work are two. But the worst is regulations changing faster than a nuke plant can be built and changes to construction mid - build to accommodate regulatory changes that happened after construction started.

Yep. That is exactly what happened in Washington State when their ultra-cheap hydro power drove up demand, forcing the utility to build a nuclear plant to cover it. Lawsuits delayed the project and drove up costs so much that the utility had to greatly increase rates to cover those costs. The increased rates dramatically reduced consumption which in turn eliminated the supply/demand problem and the nuclear plant was abandoned. Washington rate payers are still paying for that.

[dantes]

What was the name of the project?

[Samm]

@dantes

Because it’s harder to defend many dispersed objects than fewer centralized ones.

Have you ever heard the expression “Never keep your eggs in one basket”? It is orders of magnitude more difficult to coordinate an attack on multiple small targets than to strike one large one. The chances of successfuly takng out numerous small nuclear generators as opposed to one large one is very small. It is also easier to defend a small facility than a large one.

[dantes]

Who said anything about organizing a coordinated attack?

One attack the damages containment on a reactor is pretty serious.

You keep making comments about stability of the grid when I clearly stated that’s a secondary concern. The main concern is damaging containment of a nuclear reactor.

[Samm]

@dantes

What was the name of the project?

WNP-3 and WNP-5

WNP-3 and WNP-5

[Samm]

@dantes

Who said anything about organizing a coordinated attack?

One attack the damages containment on a reactor is pretty serious.

You keep making comments about stability of the grid when I clearly stated that’s a secondary concern. The main concern is damaging containment of a nuclear reactor.

I suppose you think these generators would just sit out in the open where anyone can walk up to them with a large bomb and crack them open like an egg.

[dantes]

The wiki article cites cost overruns during construction which prompted public opposition, given they were supposed to pay for these cost overruns.

The wiki does not say what causes these overruns and makes no mention of lawsuits as the cause. Do you have a source which provides this information?

[zantax]

@dantes

Who said anything about organizing a coordinated attack?

One attack the damages containment on a reactor is pretty serious.

You keep making comments about stability of the grid when I clearly stated that’s a secondary concern. The main concern is damaging containment of a nuclear reactor.

Not easy to do, the reactor and containment for these are in a concrete vault, underground.

[dantes]

Gosh. Sounds cheap. Infiltration and explosives then.

[Samm]

@dantes

The wiki article cites cost overruns during construction which prompted public opposition, given they were supposed to pay for these cost overruns.

The wiki does not say what causes these overruns and makes no mention of lawsuits as the cause. Do you have a source which provides this information?

No … nothing but my memory. I vividly remember that the delays that drove up the cost were caused by lawsuits and protests. Remember, most of this sorry episode took place during the mid to late 70s when there was double digit inflation, particularly with construction materials, labor and petroleum fuels. Any delay was catastrophic to budgets.

But we’re getting off topic. In fact, this entire nuclear power discussion is off topic.

[dantes]

Every source I’ve been looking through says the construction was just really badly mismanaged.

Nuclear Implosions

And here,
https://books.google.com/books?id=25FPAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA550&lpg=PA550&dq=cause+of+cost+overruns+and+delays+wppss&source=bl&ots=NSkjsSN_Jx&sig=2fwzIzWmHUBwK218-W0ZhfU4XqY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZ5JDi8PLdAhWr7YMKHcIFBXcQ6AEwBXoECAUQAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

The proposed cost ballooned from $4 billion to $24 billion. No one mentions lawsuits and protestors causing much increase in price.

I’m not very sure about your vivid memory.

[Samm]

@dantes

Every source I’ve been looking through says the construction was just really badly mismanaged.

Nuclear Implosions: The Rise and Fall of the Washington Public Power Supply ... - Daniel Pope - Google Books

And here,
Nuclear Regulatory Commission Issuances: Opinions and Decisions of the ... - U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission - Google Books

The proposed cost ballooned from $4 billion to $24 billion. No one mentions lawsuits and protestors causing much increase in price.

I’m not very sure about your vivid memory.

I really don’t care if you doubt me or not. Besides, as I said, it is completely off topic.

[dantes]

Meh. I find the idea of nuclear power to be quite relevant to the solution of global warming. The nuclear power company Zantax brings up appears very promising despite my probing, they clearly had solid answers for everything.

It sounds to me like you were trying to scapegoat environmentalists. A person’s memory, especially from decades ago, can be very deceptive. Especially when there is a, let’s say, motivation.

I also doubt it’s a coincidence that you’ve now decided this is off topic.

[Samm]

@dantes

ompany Zantax brings up appears very promising despite my probing, they clearly had solid answers for everything.

It sounds to me like you were trying to scapegoat environmentalists. A person’s memory, especially from decades ago, can be very deceptive. Especially when there is a, let’s say, motivation.

I was scapegoating environmentalists, because had they not fought the project, the delays would not have snowballed and costs soared due to inflation, resulting redesigns and construction contract renegotiations. That you don’t believe it doesn’t matter, particularly since those details have nothing to do with the thread topic.

Nuclear power itself, however, is on topic and so are the roadblocks that environmentalists throw up in front of it. Ironically, environmentalists organizations such as the Sierra Club back in the early '60s argued in favor of nuclear power over large hydro projects. But I doubt that you will believe that either, so lets just move on. Okay?

[Call_me_Ishmael]

…we think.

[dantes]

Not according to what I read. They planned five reactors. They chose different architecture firms, different designs (which required separate approvals from nuclear regulatory agencies), and a legion of separate contractors and suppliers that had poor communication between everyone involved.

No one anywhere says anything about protestors and lawsuits from environmentalists, including citations from the government report issued on the debacle.

Sounds like you’re searching for a scapegoat to me.