How long is the normal trial and approval process?
On hydroxychloroquine, a doctor said thisā¦
āThis medication has major side effects including paranoia, hallucinations, suicidal thoughts, suppression of your blood counts so that you become more susceptible to infections. It can cause severe cardiac arrhythmias that can even cause death,ā she said.
āThey are not common side effects, but they are common enough that this should not be taken willy-nilly. It is not like water, it is not harmless, and it may have major side effects.ā
That 80% number for vent patients is about right based on my experience and that of colleagues Iāve talked to. The survival of those just being admitted to the hospital is actually pretty good. Canāt find numbers but itās probably about the opposite of those on ventilators. So, across the board probably 75% of those admitted do just fine, likely higher. Itās really the development of ARDS which leads to being put on a vent that the determining factor for survival. As long as you donāt develop ARDS you do pretty well despite hospitalization.
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WuWei
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I pray this helps. I really do.
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WuWei
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China reported 97% of those on ventilators died a week or so ago.
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Why didnāt you also bold the āFDA-approved usesā part? Those indications cover much more than what you seem to think they can be given for.
Those were initial numbers of the first patients. Numbers are currently slightly better. 80% isnāt all that great either.
DougBH
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And yet a much larger group in Britain showed it was about 50/50.
JayJay
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My posts were not meant to discourage thisā¦in fact even the author of the New Yorker piece said it was imperative we have more tests and trials of the drugs because every trial that has reported outā¦the Marseilles one, the Paris one, and the China oneā¦have had flaws.
Keep testing the drugsā¦but be realistic about it. And realize this thing does not follow any timetable we would like.
False hope is worse than no hope.
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Thanks for your response above.
When those doctors discussed this with CNN (I think it was Dr. Gupta) you could see the angst and sorrow, and tears, with their frustration that they canāt do more for their patients.
Iām just in awe of all of you who are putting your lives on the line every day to help all of us.
Iāll admit Iām terrified of contracting COVID and getting ARDS. Two years ago I had the flu and a mild case of pneumonia. I can handle the other symptoms of the flu, but gasping for air was the most scared Iāve ever been sick.
The stress right now has raised my BP a little, but Iām doing my best to self-isolate and take all precautions on my weekly trip for grocery stores.
Because of the new CDC guidelines Iāll now be wearing a mask when out getting groceries. It seems the virus hangs in the air much more than they thought, or were letting on, and that has added to my terror.
Nobody can get it without physician supervision and our docās who arenāt smart enough to know the contraindications have access to appās on cell phones and tablets to warn them.
The Pharmacist who fills the script has the same built into their pharmacy software.
Nobody is getting it over the counter in this country legally.
At the 200mg prophylactic dose and 400mg treatment dose toxicity is almost unheard of except in patients with advanced kidney disease.
These are among the safest drugs ever produced.
I did some bench work during my phd with the endocytic pathway (fun times)ā¦its so funny/weird seeing you talk about it. I mean, I assume you knew zero about this stuff until a couple of days ago, right? The internet is awesome.
@JayJay is right, btw.
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China isnāt exactly known for itās great medical care.
They arenāt going to waste many resources on those with little chance of recovery.
China has an excess population already of more than 100 million and itās expected to grow dramatically over the next decade as more of their production becomes automated.
The CCP has no respect for human life period, youāre nothing but a number to them.
Yes, letās just let seriously and critically ill patients die while waiting on trials.
No thanks.
The first French study showed exactly the opposite when used in combination with Zithromax in severely and critically ill patients.
JayJay
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Youāre being smart.
I was the same way at the start, but eventually calmed myself by realizing no matter what I did I couldnāt reduce the risk to zero that I might contract it (although Iām not so much worried about ARDSā¦granted this is a new virus to which I have never been exposed, but I have never had any virus that has ever gotten past my upper respiratory tractā¦and no history of that anywhere in my family eitherā¦I am counting on good genes to get me through it if I get it! At least it puts me in the proper mindset!)
I know that type of calming doesnāt work for everyoneā¦Iām not sure what works for you, but stress and worrying about it isnāt good for youā¦so whatever your stress-relieving methods are, I can only encourage you to try them.
Thanks. I really feel like Iām just doing my job more than putting my life in danger, but the thought of becoming ill is always on my mind.
The frustration (in my opinion) comes from a couple sources. First, COVID-19 is so variable and can progress so rapidly. Iāve seen chest xrays and CTs that look horrible yet people are almost completely asymptomatic whereas other progress from normal imaging to ARDS to death in 48 hours. Age and underlying conditions help, but thereās no great way of predicting how someone will do.
Next is that weāre learning on the fly that the sepsis COVID-19 brings about has to be managed differently. Typically you give someone with sepsis plenty of IV fluids and intubate only as a last resort. With COVID-19 their lungs canāt handle fluids at all, so you have to purposefully ākeep them dryā and put them on vents earlier than typical.
It would be great if we had any medications/treatments that were definitely effective. Right now we donāt. Weāre giving them anything we think is reasonable even if there is no evidence. As of now, there is nothing I would say is very effective. Thatās not much different from other āseasonalā viral illnesses though.
Outside factors, such as wild claims as to ācuresā or general disinformation really donāt play a part once it gets to the hospital. They donāt change what I or others do. Itās more background noise when Iām not working. The only times I care are when people claim weāre withholding medications which will miraculously save people or when people advocate things which are blatantly dangerous.
The thing to remember through all of this is that the majority of people, even people with risk factors, do just fine. If youāre wearing a cloth mask alone, I highly recommend you donāt wear it for extended periods of time and wash it frequently. A wet cloth mask is potentially more dangerous than no mask at all.
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Thanks Jay.
Iāve been inside mostly this past week due to cold/wet weather. Itās getting warmer and drier this week so I can get out to work on some yard improvements. That will get me away from the TV and nice fresh air. Thatāll help some.
My big hobby (and stress reliever) since I retired six years ago is shooting at the local club/range and hanging out with my buddies there. Thatās not possible now. The range is closed for who knows how long and when it re-opens there will need to be significant changes to how the range is run. Most of us who go during the week are 60-80 years old.
Camp
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Sounds like Zoloft or any SSRI inhibitor.
Except hydroxychloroquine has been around a lot longer and studied more thoroughly for these side effects. They exist and are known.
