China and favorable views of the country since Covid

Snowfinch · 2020-12-07T22:42:20.412Z

WuWei:

Who do you mean?

You favor a strict recognition of nations that trade with China as toxic. And do not support incentivizing other countries to cooperate with our interests regarding China. (Cut them off is the term you used)

I think cooperation of these toxic-ish? semi-toxic? countries is valuable and part of our offense to keep competitive with China after the decouple.

conan · 2020-12-07T22:43:06.218Z

You think I was talking about states? I was talking about nations.

China air pollution goes over Washington state. Ocean current circulate off the coast of Washington.

Axxowiz · 2020-12-07T22:43:44.698Z

Can’t blame them really not wanting the press there they have over a million locked in concentration camps.

It’s almost like a bad joke but it’s real. The United States biggest trading partner is a communist country with a million people locked in concentration camps.

conan · 2020-12-07T22:49:13.393Z

Precisely…it goes against everything we were taught, believed in.

To think there was a time where democrats and republican agreed on…back when democrats were more liberal then a lib.

That all started to change about the time Gingrich taken the house back in 94. I believe libs never gotten over it. Just like they will never gotten over 2016 election.

Snowfinch · 2020-12-07T22:50:40.950Z

Axxowiz:

It’s almost like a bad joke but it’s real. The United States biggest trading partner is a communist country with a million people locked in concentration camps.

Do yourself a favor and don’t look at our largest arms export last year.

$$$ is driving our policy.

Guilds · 2020-12-07T22:59:15.046Z

WuWei:

Why would I want to discuss unions with you?

Unions are part of the overall discussion.

Many of the ideals I hear in this discussion, is to not use slave labor.
Does that not apply to US workers as well?

WuWei · 2020-12-07T22:59:27.221Z

Snowfinch:

WuWei:

Who do you mean?

You favor a strict recognition of nations that trade with China as toxic. And do not support incentivizing other countries to cooperate with our interests regarding China. (Cut them off is the term you used)

I think cooperation of these toxic-ish? semi-toxic? countries is valuable and part of our offense to keep competitive with China after the decouple.

No I don’t. If they want to trade with China that’s fine. If they want to be toxic, that’s not fine.

I’m not even saying we don’t trade with China. If you want a Chinese spatula or tv stand, that’s fine.

We don’t be dependent on them for things that matter.

And American companies need to understand that if they do business with China, they do it at their own risk. Because if the toxicity increases, decoupling will intensify and they might take a hit.

Trade with all, dependence on none.

America First, not only.

Snowfinch · 2020-12-07T22:59:36.992Z

conan:

That all started to change about the time Gingrich taken the house back in 94. I believe libs never gotten over it. Just like they will never gotten over 2016 election.

This wasn’t initiated by voters or ideologues. This was lobbied for by commercial entities who saw profit in Chinese labor. The politicians abided with policy and soft-handed explanations to the voters about why this was a good thing.

Voters abided with their normal level of guided enthusiasm.

WuWei · 2020-12-07T23:01:23.760Z

Snowfinch:

Axxowiz:

It’s almost like a bad joke but it’s real. The United States biggest trading partner is a communist country with a million people locked in concentration camps.

Do yourself a favor and don’t look at our largest arms export last year.

$$$ is driving our policy.

Why? Export is good.

Guilds · 2020-12-07T23:01:43.273Z

conan:

China air pollution goes over Washington state. Ocean current circulate off the coast of Washington.

Oh…got it.

Well, we could demand they adhere to better standards, or we will take our business elsewhere. But I do no think it is that easy.

WuWei · 2020-12-07T23:02:01.474Z

Snowfinch:

ideologues

Kissinger.

Guilds · 2020-12-07T23:03:56.517Z

conan:

That all started to change about the time Gingrich taken the house back in 94. I believe libs never gotten over it. Just like they will never gotten over 2016 election.

It was an idea in the 70’s.
It was put in place in the 80’s
It went into over drive on the 90’s.
It went on steroids in the 00’s. And it still pretty much there.

Snowfinch · 2020-12-07T23:08:06.782Z

WuWei:

No I don’t. If they want to trade with China that’s fine. If they want to be toxic, that’s not fine.

I’m not even saying we don’t trade with China. If you want a Chinese spatula or tv stand, that’s fine.

Thanks for the clarification. On first read it seemed you wanted to decouple from other countries as well. And that decoupling meant cease of trade. I guess decoupling is targeted reduction of trade involving industries and products of national importance?

[quote=“SneakySFDude, post:148, topic:237339”]

Snowfinch:

WuWei:

Time to cut the bitch loose and move on.
[/quote]

Should this extend to us pressuring others to do the same?

Our allies are involved in China as well. Do we cut them loose or enforce our will on them by conditioning trade on their China economic policies?

No. We can’t impose our will on her friends either. Cut them loose

WuWei · 2020-12-07T23:12:48.653Z

Yep. Exactly that.

Snowfinch · 2020-12-07T23:15:22.899Z

[quote=“SneakySFDude, post:188, topic:237339”]

Snowfinch:

Axxowiz:

It’s almost like a bad joke but it’s real. The United States biggest trading partner is a communist country with a million people locked in concentration camps.
[/quote]

Do yourself a favor and don’t look at our largest arms export last year.

$$$ is driving our policy.

Why? Export is good

Not a statement on its goodness. Axxowiz was commenting on that it was surprising to find our largest trading partner is a communist country that abuses its inhabitants.

I was noting that our largest arms customer is similarly an un-free nation with bad habits of abusing its inhabitants.

The point being that the scale of our trade relationship is not colored by the democratic worthiness of the partner nation.

“Do yourself a favor…” was a rhetorical device to introduce that point.

WuWei · 2020-12-07T23:16:08.148Z

Which country is it?

Snowfinch · 2020-12-07T23:17:06.847Z

2019 it was Saudi Arabia.

WuWei · 2020-12-07T23:17:56.849Z

Snowfinch:

2019 it was Saudi Arabia.

Mmmmm. And that is a problem why?

Snowfinch · 2020-12-07T23:26:02.882Z

WuWei:

Mmmmm. And that is a problem why?

Nobody has said that it is a problem. The phenomen under discussion was how trading volume was not tied to or restricted by the governmental practices of the nation being traded with.

The other poster professed astonishment and i reenforced his example with another like example.

It is the value of the trade to the participants that control the scale, not the desired social policies of the US.

conan · 2020-12-07T23:32:56.459Z

I’m thinking the change happen after the fall of Soviet Union…that’s when talk about human rights started to end.

Newt tried to keep it alive but evidently was driven from power…by both sides.