Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys want “European Army”

margaretms2 · 2018-11-13T19:55:23.539Z

It reminds me how, as aggregate international views of the US have plummeted (as they did under George W. Bush, and as they have done under Trump), our beloved American wingnuts–previously so worried about our global status, previously so preoccupied with anxiety about other countries “laughing at us”–shift from: Yeah, well, they may not like us, but they respect us–and, well, **** the international community anyway!

They’re like some collective version of that ******* who shows up on the Internet forum in 2003, adds nothing, acts like a dick, and says: I didn’t come here to make friends! Besides, they like us more now in places like Russia!

Samm · 2018-11-13T20:40:22.517Z

They are supported by recorded history. It’s not up to me to prove publicly known facts.

Samm · 2018-11-13T20:44:39.065Z

NJBob:

Samm:

CanadianJudo:

Yet the mere though of France having a military to rival the U.S has you claiming they are insulting you.

Delusional. France will NEVER have a Military to rival the U.S.

Never is a long time.

Actually, the US didn’t have a military to rival France up until the 1940s.

And never shall France achieve Military parity again. Any scenario that brings the US military power down to their current level will be just as hard if not harder on them.

Samm · 2018-11-13T20:51:16.099Z

JayJay:

Samm:

JayJay:

@Samm at no point did Macron mention severing ties with the US.

At no point did he say the European Army was for defense against the United States.

Why are you letting yourself get worked up by yet another of Trump’s lies?

Worked up? Why is expressing a difference of opinion interpreted as being an emotional response by you? Perhaps it is you who s getting worked up.

You were insulted by things that weren’t said because you didn’t bother to check them out.

That’s my definition of worked up.

Why do you continue to take a known liar’s words at face value?

Being insulted is a personal reaction. I did not take the comments personally. What a said was that the comments were an insult to the country and, in my opinion, they were.

Why do you continue to try to make this personal?

Samm · 2018-11-13T21:05:00.590Z

It as not the presence of individual armies that caused WWI and WWII, it was Nationalism, Imperialism and centuries of ambition and bitter rivalries between the ruling classes of each country that caused those two wars. WW parts I & II put an end to the power of royalty that permitted them to use their armies against each other.

Samm · 2018-11-13T21:08:54.239Z

Grimalken:

As the old proverb goes, “too many cooks spoil the broth.” Trying to create an army using so many independent sovereign nations, result in a bloat of high level officers and dignitaries, all trying to be relevant and control everything?

I think the process would be filled with generals and politicians assigned using affirmative action type quotas, to pacify every nation involved. so that they feel their nation has a say in how the army is being run.

Yep. Just look at the difficulty the arose because of the egos of DeGaul and Montgomery supposedly serving under Eisenhower.

JayJay · 2018-11-13T21:15:23.941Z

Samm:

JayJay:

Samm:

JayJay:

@Samm at no point did Macron mention severing ties with the US.

At no point did he say the European Army was for defense against the United States.

Why are you letting yourself get worked up by yet another of Trump’s lies?

Worked up? Why is expressing a difference of opinion interpreted as being an emotional response by you? Perhaps it is you who s getting worked up.

You were insulted by things that weren’t said because you didn’t bother to check them out.

That’s my definition of worked up.

Why do you continue to take a known liar’s words at face value?

Being insulted is a personal reaction. I did not take the comments personally. What a said was that the comments were an insult to the country and, in my opinion, they were.

Why do you continue to try to make this personal?

The comments that were supposedly an insult to the country were a LIE by Trump.

Macron didn’t say what Trump said he did!

tnt · 2018-11-13T21:32:16.991Z

Samm:

It as not the presence of individual armies that caused WWI and WWII, it was Nationalism, Imperialism and centuries of ambition and bitter rivalries between the ruling classes of each country that caused those two wars. WW parts I & II put an end to the power of royalty that permitted them to use their armies against each other.

Right…but if those nationalistic rival countries didn’t have large standing armies capable of aggression…then what would have happened?

Grimalken · 2018-11-13T22:01:48.366Z

Samm:

Yep. Just look at the difficulty the arose because of the egos of DeGaul and Montgomery supposedly serving under Eisenhower.

They won’t be able to appoint the best commanders for the positions, they will be placing the most politically correct to appease each constituency group.

Samm · 2018-11-14T01:15:28.869Z

JayJay:

The comments that were supposedly an insult to the country were a LIE by Trump.

Macron didn’t say what Trump said he did!

I’m discussing the OP. What are you talking about?

Blackwolf · 2018-11-14T01:20:54.791Z

margaretms2:

Sure, it was a joke, or a “joke.” Sort of. Kidding on the square. But it was stupid, and it took place in the context of ■■■■■■■■ on the French for not standing at attention to the beat of our war drums for an ill-conceived and ill-executed invasion that they were correct to oppose. It was a pointless, tone-deaf poke in the eye to an ally, especially at a time when the French military (Ney called them “so-called ally, France” ) was supporting us in Afghanistan. As a rep at the French embassy said at the time, "We are at a very serious moment dealing with very serious issues, and we are not focusing on the name you give to potatoes.” Hey–can’t you take a joke?

10 mic drops

Samm · 2018-11-14T01:26:09.974Z

tnt:

Samm:

It as not the presence of individual armies that caused WWI and WWII, it was Nationalism, Imperialism and centuries of ambition and bitter rivalries between the ruling classes of each country that caused those two wars. WW parts I & II put an end to the power of royalty that permitted them to use their armies against each other.

Right…but if those nationalistic rival countries didn’t have large standing armies capable of aggression…then what would have happened?

Nice goalpost move there buddy.

Samm · 2018-11-14T01:27:21.360Z

Grimalken:

Samm:

Yep. Just look at the difficulty the arose because of the egos of DeGaul and Montgomery supposedly serving under Eisenhower.

They won’t be able to appoint the best commanders for the positions, they will be placing the most politically correct to appease each constituency group.

Yep … kind of like NATO except without the resources.

tnt · 2018-11-14T02:20:28.056Z

Samm:

Nice goalpost move there buddy.

Not at all. Just reiterating my original point - your post helped make it more clear.

We don’t want every country in teh world having large, able armies.

Jezcoe · 2018-11-14T02:42:18.733Z

I am still trying to wrap my head around the concept that they owe us money for two wars that we came out of as the only real winner.

reflechissez · 2018-11-14T02:44:58.086Z

Jezcoe:

I am still trying to wrap my head around the concept that they owe us money for two wars that we came out of as the only real winner.

According to Samm, the debt was forgiven. Of course he’s never told us what that debt was because apparently it’s a well-known historical fact and Samm doesn’t provide evidence of well-known historical facts…or something…

Samm · 2018-11-14T03:41:56.555Z

tnt:

Samm:

Nice goalpost move there buddy.

Not at all. Just reiterating my original point - your post helped make it more clear.

We don’t want every country in teh world having large, able armies.

No … YOU don’t want every country in the world having large able armies. But then, they never have and never will, so I guess its all okay.

tnt · 2018-11-14T03:53:31.102Z

Samm:

No … YOU don’t want every country in the world having large able armies. But then, they never have and never will, so I guess its all okay.

do you want france, germany, belgium, spain, portugal, greece, italy etc…all to have large able armies?

Samm · 2018-11-14T03:57:03.838Z

I didn’t say that. I said that those countries having large able armies was not the cause of either WWI or WWII. What you or I want has nothing what so ever to do with whether those countries ever go to war with each other again or not. And having one large European Army instead of a lot of smaller ones, won’t have anything to do with it either.

Hexenbiest · 2018-11-14T04:01:26.395Z

Take the orange man from the equation for a second and look at a different side of the argument. The EU has been denying for years and years there was ever a plan for a European Army, when they were questioned about it the people questioning them were mocked and ridiculed.

One of the points the “Leave Campaign” had for Brexit was the formation of a European Army. And here is the “The Guardian” newspaper in London saying it’s all a big hoax and lie by the leave campaign. The exact words on whether there will ever be an EU army.

“Claims from the leave side about moves to unify Europe’s armed forces are nothing more than fantasy”

the Guardian – 27 May 16

Is there a secret plan to create an EU army?

Claims from the leave side about moves to unify Europe’s armed forces are nothing more than fantasy