Cant kill enough through abortion, lets switch to crack-pipes

[Guvnah]

@WuWei

Now we are giving away crack pipes to achieve equity.

Progress!

Maybe it’s the best Biden can do for reparations?

[Striker840]

@TheDoctorIsIn

@Striker840

Hmmm, PRETTY sure that was not the point of the post, but, you knew that. Funny, they were the pioneer of “harm reduction” yet they have increased OD’s??
Is the rise connected to the program, maybe, maybe not. BUT they are seeing a big increase in OD’s. So, apparently the treatment option is failing.

ODs are increasing everywhere because of fentanyl.

That is as true in San Francisco as it is in West Virginia.

Soooo, handing out clean needles, providing treatment, detox, etc is not working. But it IS enabling them via free needles. I have a close family member who is struggling with Alcohol, have been to a few meetings with this individual. What works in creating recovered addicts is to remove the addiction be it booze, drugs, both from their life. I don’t drink, I MIGHT have a beer with my daughter if we are together, last time I was drunk was when OSU beat Bama in the first college playoff game.

By giving them free needles, which is good if the goal is to reduce disease, but does absolutely nothing to help reduce addicts, simply providing a tool for them to continue.

[Jezcoe]

@Striker840

By giving them free needles, which is good if the goal is to reduce disease, but does absolutely nothing to help reduce addicts, simply providing a tool for them to continue.

During prohibition, the mafia would take industrial wood alcohol and distill it out to bootleg alcohol.

In response to this the US Government mandated that the alcohol be made more poisonous.

This did not stop one person from drinking but it made the act of drinking a lot more dangerous.

That killed people.

If we are to learn anything from Prohibition and drug policy of the late 20th and early 21st century is that making the procurement and consumption of drugs more dangerous is not a deterrence that is outweighed by the increased harm inflicted on people.

The goal of providing clean needles and such is to reduce the spread of disease.

Even Republicans were behind this in 2019.

[Striker840]

@Jezcoe

@Oldandtired

There is only one way and you have no idea what it is. I have seen many think they could short cut their way to sobriety, and they always failed.

I am sure that you believe that to be true.

Obviously have never had a close family member dealing with drug/alcohol addiction.

There is NO shortcut to sobriety, none, the individual has to want deep down that they not want, because many want to change, but need to change. It is day by day, why do you think a recovered addict always gives their clean time in days??
Because it is literally day to day, hour to hour.

[Jezcoe]

@Striker840

@Jezcoe

@Oldandtired

There is only one way and you have no idea what it is. I have seen many think they could short cut their way to sobriety, and they always failed.

I am sure that you believe that to be true.

Obviously have never had a close family member dealing with drug/alcohol addiction.

There is NO shortcut to sobriety, none, the individual has to want deep down that they not want, because many want to change, but need to change. It is day by day, why do you think a recovered addict always gives their clean time in days??
Because it is literally day to day, hour to hour.

Sure.

That doesn’t mean that AA is the only option that works.

That’s all.

[FreeAndClear]

@Oldandtired

I am one. And I have been around and have known thousands of drunks and addicts. Some followed the program and stayed clean and sober and some failed.

I am so very confused

@Oldandtired

Sorry unlike a lot of people I have never drank or have I used drugs.

[Guilds]

@Oldandtired

There’s a meeting here at the Methodist church at 8:00 I will meet you there. Be sure to bring you big book and I will tell them we will have a speaker tonight who will tell us how to get clean and sober without the program.

There is more than one way to beat an addiction.

I am not a social worker.

Good for you for helping those that are in need that type of help.

[Striker840]

@Jezcoe

@Oldandtired

I have seen more drunks fail by believing what they hear from people like you. There are no short cuts to staying clean and sober. Dry drunks will last a while but they will go back to their trade sooner or later.

There is more than one way to sobriety.

That does not mean that the other ways are shortcuts.

If it does not address the core issues that started the slide, it is a shortcut and will fail much more than it will succeed.

Not every drunk or dope head will get help in programs like AA. For some the religious aspect of it turns them off. For others, it requires, no demands that one take accountability of their actions, to acknowledge the damage done to friends and family. Those same people who they may/have lied to them, stole from them, used/manipulated them just so they could get their next fix.

I assume other programs have the basically same setup, some with religion some without. But to automatically dismiss a poster who obviously knows the addict mindset is well insulting just because he calls out inaccuracies.

[Oldandtired]

Says someone who has no idea what it takes to stay clean and sober.

[Jezcoe]

@Striker840

@Jezcoe

@Oldandtired

I have seen more drunks fail by believing what they hear from people like you. There are no short cuts to staying clean and sober. Dry drunks will last a while but they will go back to their trade sooner or later.

There is more than one way to sobriety.

That does not mean that the other ways are shortcuts.

If it does not address the core issues that started the slide, it is a shortcut and will fail much more than it will succeed.

Not every drunk or dope head will get help in programs like AA. For some the religious aspect of it turns them off. For others, it requires, no demands that one take accountability of their actions, to acknowledge the damage done to friends and family. Those same people who they may/have lied to them, stole from them, used/manipulated them just so they could get their next fix.

I assume other programs have the basically same setup, some with religion some without. But to automatically dismiss a poster who obviously knows the addict mindset is well insulting just because he calls out inaccuracies.

I was not dismissive.

I am simply pushing back on the idea that there is one and only one true way for someone to get sober.

[Call_me_Ishmael]

@Jezcoe

@Striker840

@Jezcoe

@Call_me_Ishmael

@Jezcoe

@Call_me_Ishmael

It’s called appeasement. It never works.

It works to reduce communicable disease and provide a place for access to services that may help.

Prove it. San Francisco has been your experiment for years. It doesn’t work.

San Francisco has embraced drug normalization. | City Journal

As drug ODs in San Francisco soar, a new rapid response team races to save lives : NPR

Oh no… not letting addicts die is an evil experiment.

Hmmm, PRETTY sure that was not the point of the post, but, you knew that. Funny, they were the pioneer of “harm reduction” yet they have increased OD’s??
Is the rise connected to the program, maybe, maybe not. BUT they are seeing a big increase in OD’s. So, apparently the treatment option is failing.

My bet is that one of those stories is pre pandemic and the other is post pandemic as to why ODs increased.

One is early in the program and the other is what it has produced after a few years.

[Jezcoe]

@Call_me_Ishmael

@Jezcoe

@Striker840

@Jezcoe

@Call_me_Ishmael

@Jezcoe

@Call_me_Ishmael

It’s called appeasement. It never works.

It works to reduce communicable disease and provide a place for access to services that may help.

Prove it. San Francisco has been your experiment for years. It doesn’t work.

San Francisco has embraced drug normalization. | City Journal

As drug ODs in San Francisco soar, a new rapid response team races to save lives : NPR

Oh no… not letting addicts die is an evil experiment.

Hmmm, PRETTY sure that was not the point of the post, but, you knew that. Funny, they were the pioneer of “harm reduction” yet they have increased OD’s??
Is the rise connected to the program, maybe, maybe not. BUT they are seeing a big increase in OD’s. So, apparently the treatment option is failing.

My bet is that one of those stories is pre pandemic and the other is post pandemic as to why ODs increased.

One is early in the program and the other is what it has produced after a few years.

ODs are up nationwide.

Not just in San Fran.

[Oldandtired]

Look at you trying to shame a drunk.

[FreeAndClear]

@Oldandtired

Look at you trying to shame a drunk.

All i said was i was confused by the change in your life story. A drunk … an alleged drunk who Was shaming others for doing drugs and alcohol by saying she never did drugs or alcohol just makes me confused is all. You don’t have to explain though. I think everyone got it now.

[Oldandtired]

How many times do you think I have been drunk and sober in my life time? I attended my first AA meeting at 15.

[Striker840]

@Jezcoe

@Striker840

@Jezcoe

@Oldandtired

I have seen more drunks fail by believing what they hear from people like you. There are no short cuts to staying clean and sober. Dry drunks will last a while but they will go back to their trade sooner or later.

There is more than one way to sobriety.

That does not mean that the other ways are shortcuts.

If it does not address the core issues that started the slide, it is a shortcut and will fail much more than it will succeed.

Not every drunk or dope head will get help in programs like AA. For some the religious aspect of it turns them off. For others, it requires, no demands that one take accountability of their actions, to acknowledge the damage done to friends and family. Those same people who they may/have lied to them, stole from them, used/manipulated them just so they could get their next fix.

I assume other programs have the basically same setup, some with religion some without. But to automatically dismiss a poster who obviously knows the addict mindset is well insulting just because he calls out inaccuracies.

I was not dismissive.

I am simply pushing back on the idea that there is one and only one true way for someone to get sober.

There is, it is called stop taking drugs, or stop drinking. The problem is how to KEEP that sobriety, for many it is AA/NA, for others it will be inpatient treatment (which my family member requested) and she was good for around 90 days, then relapse, this time she didn’t blame the other family member and actually faced up to it. There is no single Magic bullet that will cure an addiction. As they say there are 3 types, current, recovered, or dead.

There IS only one way to get sober, and only that individual knows how to do it.

[Jezcoe]

@Striker840

@Jezcoe

@Striker840

@Jezcoe

@Oldandtired

I have seen more drunks fail by believing what they hear from people like you. There are no short cuts to staying clean and sober. Dry drunks will last a while but they will go back to their trade sooner or later.

There is more than one way to sobriety.

That does not mean that the other ways are shortcuts.

If it does not address the core issues that started the slide, it is a shortcut and will fail much more than it will succeed.

Not every drunk or dope head will get help in programs like AA. For some the religious aspect of it turns them off. For others, it requires, no demands that one take accountability of their actions, to acknowledge the damage done to friends and family. Those same people who they may/have lied to them, stole from them, used/manipulated them just so they could get their next fix.

I assume other programs have the basically same setup, some with religion some without. But to automatically dismiss a poster who obviously knows the addict mindset is well insulting just because he calls out inaccuracies.

I was not dismissive.

I am simply pushing back on the idea that there is one and only one true way for someone to get sober.

There is, it is called stop taking drugs, or stop drinking. The problem is how to KEEP that sobriety, for many it is AA/NA, for others it will be inpatient treatment (which my family member requested) and she was good for around 90 days, then relapse, this time she didn’t blame the other family member and actually faced up to it. There is no single Magic bullet that will cure an addiction. As they say there are 3 types, current, recovered, or dead.

There IS only one way to get sober, and only that individual knows how to do it.

There are many paths to sobriety. AA is one of them.

I am not sure why this is a contentious issue.

[Oldandtired]

Dry dunks.

[FreeAndClear]

@Oldandtired

How many times do you think I have been drunk and sober in my life time? I attended my first AA meeting at 15.

Never. You said never. Not me.

I don’t know. how many times did you say that you never drank or done drugs on this board in order to make a point only to change that “fact” when the argument called for it. All i said was i am confused.

[Oldandtired]

Have you ever lived the life as an addict? Maybe attend a meeting tonight and find your answer.