Canadian virologist bluntly dismisses the COVID-19 overreaction by governments, media

toreyj01 · 2020-11-19T22:43:22.066Z

rp5x5:

toreyj01:

rp5x5:

toreyj01:

rp5x5:

toreyj01:

Liberty323:

So what he said, particularly the quotes I posted, are just incredibly outlandish because he’s a pathologist?

I genuinely wish someone could produce a deep fake video with Fauci telling everyone to jump on one leg and bark like a dog in order to eradicate COVID. Not saying you would do this, but I’d be fascinated just to see how many would.

It is because he has no background that suggests he has any unique insights which can countermand the information currently made available by Physicians who are world leaders in the field of epidemiology and virology/ID. In fact, his opinions may actually bring harm to those who listen to him, as he is stating that masks provide no benefit.

It is dangerous and potentially harmful conduct.

I’m afraid you do not fully understand what you are saying. NEVER was mask wearing considered meaningful against viruses. “Medicine” by rote, con-men.

I am afraid we are at an impasse, you seem to be seeing this from a perspective I cannot understand. I approach this from clinical evidence, microbiology and evidence backed outcome data all which strongly support routine mask wearing and social distancing until we achieve herd immunity through nationwide vaccination.

You have a different perspective, I cannot agree with it and I think you aren’t interested in my insights gleaned from working directly with COVID patients and alongside experts in ID.

So, perhaps I shall simply call it a day in this thread. Have a good one.

You are too young and inexperienced. It is something you can learn in the future.

I wish I was young, I am far from it. But thanks for your compliment.

I mixed you up with Oryx/he/she who said s/he was in her 40’s sorry. You both have white avatars

I am in my mid-50s, not so young anymore.

rp5x5 · 2020-11-19T22:44:06.099Z

toreyj01:

rp5x5:

toreyj01:

rp5x5:

toreyj01:

rp5x5:

toreyj01:

Liberty323:

So what he said, particularly the quotes I posted, are just incredibly outlandish because he’s a pathologist?

I genuinely wish someone could produce a deep fake video with Fauci telling everyone to jump on one leg and bark like a dog in order to eradicate COVID. Not saying you would do this, but I’d be fascinated just to see how many would.

It is because he has no background that suggests he has any unique insights which can countermand the information currently made available by Physicians who are world leaders in the field of epidemiology and virology/ID. In fact, his opinions may actually bring harm to those who listen to him, as he is stating that masks provide no benefit.

It is dangerous and potentially harmful conduct.

I’m afraid you do not fully understand what you are saying. NEVER was mask wearing considered meaningful against viruses. “Medicine” by rote, con-men.

I am afraid we are at an impasse, you seem to be seeing this from a perspective I cannot understand. I approach this from clinical evidence, microbiology and evidence backed outcome data all which strongly support routine mask wearing and social distancing until we achieve herd immunity through nationwide vaccination.

You have a different perspective, I cannot agree with it and I think you aren’t interested in my insights gleaned from working directly with COVID patients and alongside experts in ID.

So, perhaps I shall simply call it a day in this thread. Have a good one.

You are too young and inexperienced. It is something you can learn in the future.

I wish I was young, I am far from it. But thanks for your compliment.

I mixed you up with Oryx/he/she who said s/he was in her 40’s sorry. You both have white avatars

I am in my mid-50s, not so young anymore.

Oh…yes you are young!

FlameHeart · 2020-11-19T22:45:03.156Z

Don’t all Pathologists do autopsies? I haven’t really shadowed anyone in that area yet.

FlameHeart · 2020-11-19T22:46:38.042Z

My mom is in her 60’s. I know a Psychiatrist who is 60 and didn’t graduate medical school until 2009. I don’t think you’re that old.

toreyj01 · 2020-11-19T22:51:22.399Z

FlameHeart:

Don’t all Pathologists do autopsies? I haven’t really shadowed anyone in that area yet.

No. Some pathologists study tissue from tumors, for example, to classify the type and the chance of malignancy. When you get tissue samples, that is who studies it. They can establish both infectious and non-infectious pathologies via fluid or tissue samples. Some of them specialize in autopsy, or necropsy.

If this chap was fluent in the study of infection in tissues or fluid via bacterial/viral/fungal orientations, he would certainly have a leg to stand on and a valid opinion. But he doesn’t, so there it is.

toreyj01 · 2020-11-19T22:52:23.117Z

FlameHeart:

My mom is in her 60’s. I know a Psychiatrist who is 60 and didn’t graduate medical school until 2009. I don’t think you’re that old.

Comforting to hear, thanks! Have been a medical staff member for 28 years and yet I still don’t feel THAT old, but for some reason I think I should.

rp5x5 · 2020-11-19T22:58:21.356Z

His credentials.

"CEO & Medical Director – MA, MB, FRCPC, FCAP

Dr Hodkinson is the CEO of Western Medical Assessments, and has been the Company’s Medical Director for over 20 years. He received his general medical degrees from Cambridge University in the UK, and then became a Royal College certified pathologist in Canada (FRCPC) following a residency in Vancouver, BC.

Before his association with Western Medical, Dr Hodkinson had a long and varied career giving him valuable insight into many fields of medicine that now benefits the company’s clients:

General practitioner in the UK and Canada
Staff pathologist at the Misericordia Hospital, Edmonton, Alberta
Pathologist with the Medical Examiner’s Office in Edmonton determining the cause of death
Assistant Professor in the Faculty of Medicine at the University of Alberta
President of the Alberta Society of Laboratory Physicians
Chairman of a Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons committee in Ottawa
CEO of a large private medical laboratory in Edmonton, Alberta

Currently, Dr Hodkinson keeps in touch with pathology as the Executive Chairman of Bio-ID Diagnostic Inc., a private company commercializing patented technologies in DNA diagnostics.

Dr Hodkinson has had a number of philanthropic roles that he treasures deeply and for which he received some years ago the honourable title of ‘Citizen of the Year’ from the City of Edmonton. He has also been Honorary Chairman of Action on Smoking and Health (ASH), and President of the Rt. Hon. Sir Winston Spencer Churchill Society of Edmonton, Alberta. He is married to Nicole Beaudoin and they have two wonderful children.

Over the years Dr Hodkinson has had substantial interface with many insurance adjusters, case managers, and lawyers in the fields of bodily injury, disability and medical malpractice, overseeing over 65,000 files. He spends much of each day advising clients on various aspects of their cases as an important value added element of Western Medical’s services."

FlameHeart · 2020-11-19T22:59:34.272Z

^this is the type of Pathologist I want to be, if I get into medical school and residency. I’m just fascinated by microscopic things such as viruses, bacteria, cytology, histology, etc.

I want to do the gross stuff while everyone wants to do dermatology or plastic surgery or orthopedics.

Oryx · 2020-11-19T23:17:42.922Z

rp5x5:

My mom passed at age 97 this past April NOT from Covid. I had been caring for her 24/7 for the past 20 years and all her previous problems had gone away.

I’m sorry for your loss.

DougBH · 2020-11-20T03:59:01.136Z

toreyj01:

rp5x5:

toreyj01:

Certainly not anyone I would consider an authority on COVID.

As if anyone, other than patent holder on Vaccines parts are the authorities. NO one knows what viruses are, just by naming parts.

There are experts in infectious disease and public health, I would simply listen to them and not Orthopedic Surgeons, Pathologists and the like. Medicine is a wide field involving many disciplines, and we should all stay in our lane of expertise if we are offering opinions.

Nah. Sometimes it takes someone outside of a given field to notice that people are caught in their own myths and jargon.
…obviously as long as they have a knowledge of the subject.

SpacemanSpiff · 2020-11-20T13:29:54.644Z

Put on a mask and try to blow out a match.

toreyj01 · 2020-11-20T14:10:40.474Z

DougBH:

toreyj01:

rp5x5:

toreyj01:

Certainly not anyone I would consider an authority on COVID.

As if anyone, other than patent holder on Vaccines parts are the authorities. NO one knows what viruses are, just by naming parts.

There are experts in infectious disease and public health, I would simply listen to them and not Orthopedic Surgeons, Pathologists and the like. Medicine is a wide field involving many disciplines, and we should all stay in our lane of expertise if we are offering opinions.

Nah. Sometimes it takes someone outside of a given field to notice that people are caught in their own myths and jargon.
…obviously as long as they have a knowledge of the subject.

The problem is that Physicians are like everyone else, in that there are some who really want attention and live for it. Attention, as I have often said, is a drug as addictive as heroin. You will do almost anything for it when you get hooked, including saying things that aren’t true just to get the spotlight put on you.

Do you know what you call a person that finished last in their Medical School class?

Doctor.

I have met and worked with brilliant Physicians and not so brilliant. But they all feel brilliant, because they are Doctors and everyone kisses their backsides 24/7. But you don’t know what you don’t know.

My knowledge of this pandemic is based on over a decade of researching viral epidemics, since it has been an interest of mine, but even that pales in comparison to folks who live this stuff everyday.

I learn from them, I don’t countermand or dismiss their hard won knowledge. I don’t know what I don’t know. ID Physicians are absolutely beasts when it comes to brain power, they are the brightest and most impressive Physicians you will meet and the job is HARD. The only ones I place in their strata is Nephrology and perhaps Neurosurgeons.

WuWei · 2020-11-20T14:15:39.769Z

I agree with @toreyj01 . Not all lab coats are equal on every topic.

FlameHeart · 2020-11-20T17:12:21.370Z

toreyj01:

Do you know what you call a person that finished last in their Medical School class?

Doctor.

This. My mom has said this to me countless times.There are a lot of other pre-med students who are snobby and have a checklist mentality. The sad part is, they will get into medical school because they are so achievement-oriented and have done research and gotten a 3.95 GPA and a 528 on the MCAT, and all of these shadowing hours; medical schools will fawn over them veresus someone who is well-rounded but their GPA has dropped due to some health crises. The former go on to be gunners in medical school and get their MD/DO, and then they start treating patients without ever growing as a person.

Some kids are going or are potentially going to medical school because their parents want them to so they can live through them vicariously. I’m talking about tiger parents. The kids have no choice of their own, and so they grow much apathy for the medical professions.

A lot of good talent is being filtered out because of the checklist mentality and this coupled with hospitals/clinics trying to cut costs by not hiring doctors (and instead hiring NPs or PAs- not that they are bad, but doctors have studied long and hard for at least 8 years to be able to treat patients), and it’s a recipe for the downfall of the healthcare system in the U.S.

Personally, I knew my freshman year of college, I was a little cocky- I think you saw some of that here on the forums when I first joined. I didn’t understand there was so much more to getting into medical school and becoming a physician than getting good grades and a good MCAT score. You have to get your feet wet first- volunteer, shadow. Become an MA or a CNA. Etc. Become a “whole person.” I’m now having the opposite problem where my GPA is very questionable (2.76 as it stands right now before final grades are entered for this semester; C-s and Ds in my hard science courses) but I’ve learned so much and grown as a person amidst all the adversity I’ve gone through over the last four years- and I now know why I needed to experience it. Because I needed to learn to be humble, to be able to empathize with someone who is struggling and not judge them for being hateful- because they are suffering and sick people don’t alwatys act the best.

I may not be able to have the grades or the organization right now to be able to become an effective phsyician, but I’ve developed a heart and a soul. I may not be a gunner, if I get in, but that’s okay. I don’t want to be a gunner; I don’t want to be famous. I just want to see the joy on people’s faces when they are feeling better and be able to grow with them in the process. I want to help because there is a mental health pandemic going on right now, of suicide. I want to alleviate this, one person at a time.

toreyj01 · 2020-11-20T19:30:29.507Z

FlameHeart:

toreyj01:

Do you know what you call a person that finished last in their Medical School class?

Doctor.

This. My mom has said this to me countless times.There are a lot of other pre-med students who are snobby and have a checklist mentality. The sad part is, they will get into medical school because they are so achievement-oriented and have done research and gotten a 3.95 GPA and a 528 on the MCAT, and all of these shadowing hours; medical schools will fawn over them veresus someone who is well-rounded but their GPA has dropped due to some health crises. The former go on to be gunners in medical school and get their MD/DO, and then they start treating patients without ever growing as a person.

Some kids are going or are potentially going to medical school because their parents want them to so they can live through them vicariously. I’m talking about tiger parents. The kids have no choice of their own, and so they grow much apathy for the medical professions.

A lot of good talent is being filtered out because of the checklist mentality and this coupled with hospitals/clinics trying to cut costs by not hiring doctors (and instead hiring NPs or PAs- not that they are bad, but doctors have studied long and hard for at least 8 years to be able to treat patients), and it’s a recipe for the downfall of the healthcare system in the U.S.

Personally, I knew my freshman year of college, I was a little cocky- I think you saw some of that here on the forums when I first joined. I didn’t understand there was so much more to getting into medical school and becoming a physician than getting good grades and a good MCAT score. You have to get your feet wet first- volunteer, shadow. Become an MA or a CNA. Etc. Become a “whole person.” I’m now having the opposite problem where my GPA is very questionable (2.76 as it stands right now before final grades are entered for this semester; C-s and Ds in my hard science courses) but I’ve learned so much and grown as a person amidst all the adversity I’ve gone through over the last four years- and I now know why I needed to experience it. Because I needed to learn to be humble, to be able to empathize with someone who is struggling and not judge them for being hateful- because they are suffering and sick people don’t alwatys act the best.

I may not be able to have the grades or the organization right now to be able to become an effective phsyician, but I’ve developed a heart and a soul. I may not be a gunner, if I get in, but that’s okay. I don’t want to be a gunner; I don’t want to be famous. I just want to see the joy on people’s faces when they are feeling better and be able to grow with them in the process. I want to help because there is a mental health pandemic going on right now, of suicide. I want to alleviate this, one person at a time.

Well, as a PA myself, I can safely say that getting into Medical School is probably easier than PA school, since there are a lot more of them. You can retake the classes you had poorer grades on and bump up that GPA, you’re going to want to be in the Mid 3’s as a minimum. You can also attend Med School in the Caribbean, which tends to be less expensive but just as good in the long run.

Being a PA, though, has its advantages. Take me for instance, I started out Catheterizing hearts straight out of PA school and evolved my practice into being a Medical Director in my Medical Center, specializing in Intravascular Imaging and Physiology. Most Cardiologists don’t have the time to fine tune their intravascular imaging skills, so they wind up skipping it, which leads to significantly more deaths and repeat procedures.

Since I do not have an office to staff or people to employ, I can specialize and bring benefit to every Cardiologist here, as well as teach Cardiology Fellows the right way to do things so that when they leave, they can do the right thing.

I am the ultimate behind the scenes person, patients don’t even know I exist but I guide 90 percent of the procedures here. Some folks are honestly alive today because I caught something so fleeting and tricky to read that most folks would have missed it, and that is a good feeling at the end of the day.

What I am saying is, it is not just being an MD that can lead to that level of satisfaction. It is doing something that makes a difference.

Good luck on your endeavors, wherever they may lead you. But open yourself to all opportunities.

altair1013 · 2020-11-20T19:50:54.515Z

SixFoot:

“They’re trying to destroy our way of life!” used to work well enough during the red scare. It didn’t work so well during the terrorism scare.

“It’s destroying our way of life!” is working relatively well with the germ scare.

No doubt. As I mentioned in another thread, the true test will be after millions of Americans have been vaccinated and the government still requires them to wear masks and abide by their restrictions. This will not play out well.

SixFoot · 2020-11-20T20:02:49.361Z

By the time this little scare dies down, there will be periodic scares and rumors of worse viruses over the next decade or two. All they had to do was say virus instead of terrorist and the libs jumped right on board.

altair1013 · 2020-11-20T20:05:15.660Z

SixFoot:

By the time this little scare dies down, there will be periodic scares and rumors of worse viruses over the next decade or two. All they had to do was say virus instead of terrorist and the libs jumped right on board.

True. But for the other half of the country, this is a one time offer. Compliance will be sketchy at best. I doubt if Florida will be interested in shutting down their tourist business again any time soon.

FlameHeart · 2020-11-20T21:08:27.408Z

Thank you. But the thing is, I need an occupation that satisfies me creatively as well as intellectually- as an artist and musician. Thus, I think I might be more happy as a physician than say, a PA or a NP. (Not that the latter two occupations don’t require a lot of brain power, but they don’t get as much wiggle room if you know what I mean).

toreyj01 · 2020-11-20T21:11:58.178Z

FlameHeart:

Thank you. But the thing is, I need an occupation that satisfies me creatively as well as intellectually- as an artist and musician. Thus, I think I might be more happy as a physician than say, a PA or a NP. (Not that the latter two occupations don’t require a lot of brain power, but they don’t get as much wiggle room if you know what I mean).

I am also an artist and a musician. I feel that my job now is more creative and fulfilling than any MD has, because I paved my own path. I get to make life and death decisions every day and the MDs do exactly what I recommend. And it turns out, for the overwhelming part, great.

But that is my path, not yours. I wish you well.