Can we talk about Mexico paying for the wall?

Politics
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Okay. Let’s take a trip into the obvious.

We can all accept the premise that Trump has claimed countless times that he’s going to build the border wall and that Mexico is going to pay for it. He was unequivocal. Over the years now, he’s floated a lot of sketchy ideas about how this is supposed to work–withholding remittances, etc. Now, of course, reality has set in, as far as funding the wall–to the point where Trump said he’d be fine shutting down the government over the funding. More recently, we’ve gotten a lot of flat-out nonsense about how the “new” NAFTA is going to mean that Mexico pays for the wall, somehow, or as Sarah Huckabee Sanders put it the other day:

“The president has been clear, that the USMCA deal would provide additional revenue through the deal that would show that Mexico is paying for the wall."

Yeah, okay, what? The economics and the math of this make no sense. And in any case, none of this is helping to solve the political problem of practically funding the wall, which makes Trump’s outlandish promise useless.

For those of you who support him, are you ready to agree with Newt Gingrich that this was essentially a “campaign device.” Or, to put it in plain language: a comically self-evident con job that was completely obvious at the time?

It’s like someone asks you to dinner and says: Hey, let’s go to an expensive place. I promise I can get the other customers at the restaurant to pay for what we order. You both order expensive meals. Dessert. Maybe some liqueur. You loosen your belt as the check comes and your dining companion says: Okay, now you need to pay the bill. You need to. I’ve got this idea about how to reimburse you in some unspecified way at some later date.

You’d probably say: Go ■■■■ yourself. You’re a liar.

I AM UPDATING THIS TODAY, 1/10/2019, as the con evolves:

The plan was for Mexico to make a one-time payment of $5-10 billion.

Trump now:

“When during the campaign, I would say ‘Mexico is going to pay for it.’ Obviously, I never said this and I never meant they are going to write out a check,” Trump said.

“I said they are going to pay for it.”

– LINK

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For the record. At no time did I believe that Mexico would ever directly pay for the wall. I voted for Trump because I wanted the wall built. Period. I knew that this would be difficult with only getting the support of conservatives. I predicted that the biggest obstacle would be Republican liberals. Which make up large portion of the party.

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Certainly explains why some of the more aware Trumpists are silent or increasingly defensive.

The remainder will stick to their usual barking: “But Obama! But Hillary! Deep State! Lib mob!”

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So you regarded that repeated promise of Donald’s like Newt (i.e. a campaign device to excite the simpletons)?

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If he wanted the wall built so badly, I’m surprised he hasn’t put some of his money where his (big) mouth is. Like to that gofundme thing. Not a peep. Funny that.

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It just seems weird to me that this has gotten a little lost in the arguments about the budget. I’m not being obtuse here. This is an outrageous, huge, honking assertion that Trump still clings to, although now we’ve got the parenthetical “indirectly” inserted into his tweets with still no credible, logical, plausible scenario in which it happens.

It’s just such an obvious con–related to both classic patent medicine charlatans and their outrageous claims, but also more updated scams (Pay me $2000 now, and I’ll guarantee we can double that in two years!, or even multilevel marketing). I know a lot of elderly Trump voters. The Venn diagram between these people and people I know who get scammed over the Internet (in innumerable ways) is mostly a single overlapping circle.

I mean: ■■■■■ We’re doing Internet crowdfunding campaigns for the wall now? It’s bizarre.

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LOL!

10GoFundMeWall

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His slush fund was shut down by NYS.

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No. Actually that thought process never really entered my mind at all. I just think that Human trafficking, drug running, border crashers, criminal invaders and those seeking to go on tax payer funded programs need to be stopped. But I also believe the America is getting too crowded and our natural resources cannot sustain 1 million legal immigrants, plus a gazillion illegal invaders every year. And there you have it. All of the detail your lil heart desires. :relaxed:

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Donald’s been taking advantage of rubes his whole life. He’s never had to be especially subtle or sophisticated about it, so long as the promises he makes are as bloated and fantastical as his own ego.

As to why people fall for the obvious con? Shrug - people are desperate to believe in all manner of things.

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So this outrageous promise he’s made countless times, which seems absurd on its face–you just sort of filtered it out. The literally/seriously thing? I am not being snarky. It sounds like that’s how you looked at it. Just get the wall built?

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margaretems, we have to accept the fact that trumpoids simply don’t care that he lies TO THEM. Repeatedly. He’s not lying to me, or to you. We’ve got his number. He’s lying TO THEM.

And they take it, and also take his next lie variant and run with that.

It’s so weird.

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Just build the wall is what I wanted. And I already explained it in detail. You are trying way too hard to understand. I am not obligated to make anyone understand or agree. I really cannot explain it any better than I already have. So take it or leave it. Not my problem.

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Yes. I keep coming back to Hannah Arendt, and this, which first struck me after Gingrich’s “campaign device” remark, but seems to apply to so many Trump supporters:

[These leaders] based their propaganda on the correct psychological assumption that, under such conditions, one could make people believe the most fantastic statements one day, and trust that if the next day they were given irrefutable proof of their falsehood, they would take refuge in cynicism; instead of deserting the leaders who had lied to them, they would protest that they had known all along that the statement was a lie and would admire the leaders for their superior tactical cleverness.

–Hannah Arendt

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Shame that the entire nation has to suffer for their willful ignorance and denial.

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I think it’s pretty clear that I am taking it. You wanted the wall built; that’s it.

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That is exactly what he’s saying. In the words of our esteemed host - unbelievable.

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When this era is written about in the history books, one of the really interesting parts will be diving into why so many Trump supporters were ok with being blatantly lied to day after day after day. We aren’t even talking about clever lies here. It’s tens of millions of people cheering while a billionaire spits into their mouths and tells them it is raining.

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Correct. And I thought his Mexico paying for it claim was ridicules and never should have been made. But I knew that regardless, he would still try like hell to get a wall built. I figured that liberal republicans would block him as they did with Obama care repeal, but I wanted to try anyway.

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Well, there are more than enough historical precedents (along with all the stuff we’re learning about the limits and problems of human cognition) to make sense of it in the grand scheme, I guess.