Britons would now vote to stay in EU, want second referendum

Tilly_jow · 2019-01-07T19:42:09.625Z

Oryx:

Tilly_jow:

Not really relevant.

Why not? I would think that avoiding the alienation of a huge percentage of the populace would be a main goal of any government.

Aren’t the Remain voters alienated by the now proven lies of the Leave side.

MoleUK · 2019-01-07T19:44:20.301Z

Actually I might have been optimistic with the half century time-frame lol.

The National Interest – 15 Aug 18

The U.S. Military Is Worried About China's Moves in Africa

The Pentagon and US State Department are reinforcing their commitment to African security and influence amid numerous reports of stepped up Chinese military and economic incursions into the region.

CNBC – 27 Jun 18

China says it will increase its military presence in Africa

From military bases to joint training exercises, Beijing is looking to establish a greater defense profile in Africa.

TommyLucchese · 2019-01-07T19:46:30.526Z

MoleUK:

I’d look to their activities in Africa over the next half century. I don’t see them staying out of that continent. Pretty sure they already have a base there now.

Getting more aggressive with some of their more direct neighbours too.

Economically I’m totally with you, but none of the other great powers have the ability to project military force on a global scale or even on a regional scale for extended periods of time. I mean no one likes to mention it, but just messing around with bits of Ukraine and Georgia and the whole Chechnya thing inside Russia has virtually broken their military.

I mean, you guys are basically number two and aren’t even playing in the same sport as us, let alone league.

MoleUK · 2019-01-07T19:49:33.117Z

TommyLucchese:

Economically I’m totally with you, but none of the other great powers have the ability to project military force on a global scale or even on a regional scale for extended periods of time. I mean no one likes to mention it, but just messing around with bits of Ukraine and Georgia and the whole Chechnya thing inside Russia has virtually broken their military.

I mean, you guys are basically number two and aren’t even playing in the same sport as us, let alone league.

We’re not even in the top 5 anymore in terms of spending.

It’s slow, but it’s happening. The Chinese only look to be ramping up.

The economic angle is only to get the foot in the door.

DOLOOP · 2019-01-07T19:52:51.155Z

■■■■ 'em.

Ingrates in the UK didn’t know they had a good thing.

EU should kick 'em to the kerb.

Give 'em a hard, hard, hard Brexit.

Oryx · 2019-01-07T19:54:24.781Z

Tilly_jow:

Aren’t the Remain voters alienated by the now proven lies of the Leave side.

Sure, but that’s very different than a government ignoring a vote and holding elections until it gets the result it wants.

Tilly_jow · 2019-01-07T20:00:24.673Z

Oryx:

Tilly_jow:

Aren’t the Remain voters alienated by the now proven lies of the Leave side.

Sure, but that’s very different than a government ignoring a vote and holding elections until it gets the result it wants.

That’s really not the case. The negations to leave have revealed the vast gap in the Leave truth of what leaving will mean. Since a second vote is possible, and the real consequences are now know, a more accurate decision can be made by the voters.

Tilly_jow · 2019-01-07T20:18:17.021Z

Oryx:

Tilly_jow:

Aren’t the Remain voters alienated by the now proven lies of the Leave side.

Sure, but that’s very different than a government ignoring a vote and holding elections until it gets the result it wants.

You need to remember, the Leave people sold this as money saving move and it’s becoming clear it’s not going to be one.

But there’s another side, literally the ‘‘Rule Britannia’’ types that don’t want any thing to do with Europe and don’t care how bad a hit the economy takes. These are mostly 60+ types, the queen and empire mentality that live in a hazy past. The worst thing you do is call these people ‘‘european’’

So now the economic types are realizing the bait and switch the ‘‘Rule Britannia’’ types have pulled and are agitating for a second vote which Leave doesn’t want because the truth is out.

DougBH · 2019-01-07T21:59:57.761Z

If there is a second referendum and the vote is to stay, then is there a third referendum if the polls change again?
Did the original referendum include a clause making the results subject to changing polls?

MoleUK · 2019-01-07T22:09:52.045Z

DougBH:

If there is a second referendum and the vote is to stay, then is there a third referendum if the polls change again?
Did the original referendum include a clause making the results subject to changing polls?

The original referendum was non-binding, parliament can ignore it if it wants.

If there were a second referendum, it wouldn’t be stay or leave.

MoleUK · 2019-01-07T22:12:29.832Z

Axxowiz:

Of course it’s relevant, even the leader of the labor party, Corbyn says there will be no new second referendum.

Corbyn is famously Eurosceptic. Many think he’s actually in favor of Brexit, though he won’t say so.

CaughtInTheMiddle · 2019-01-07T22:16:58.168Z

Maybe if the Brits learned to speak proper English, like us, they wouldn’t have to vote twice.

MoleUK · 2019-01-07T22:42:57.169Z

CaughtInTheMiddle:

Maybe if the Brits learned to speak proper English, like us, they wouldn’t have to vote twice.

Axxowiz · 2019-01-07T23:25:15.765Z

I don’t know just my outside opinion but with what’s going on the EU with the Italian budget and France riots you guys might come out as the smart ones for leaving by the time it’s all over. Little Greece brought panic and fear to the EU project awhile back, Italy is a much bigger problem.

As for Corbyn the politically smart move would be to make the Tories bring in a new vote.

DougBH · 2019-01-07T23:30:27.038Z

What public opinion polls on Brexit showed before the actual vote:

en.wikipedia.org

Opinion polling for the United Kingdom European Union membership referendum

Withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the European Union The referendum on EU membership took place on 23 June 2016. Opinion polling for the United Kingdom European Union membership referendum was ongoing in the months between the announcement of a referendum and the referendum polling day. Polls on the general principle of the UK's membership of the European Union were carried out for a number of years prior to the referendum. Opinion polls of voters in general tended to show roughly equal...

Tilly_jow · 2019-01-07T23:52:12.386Z

DougBH:

What public opinion polls on Brexit showed before the actual vote:

Opinion polling for the United Kingdom European Union membership referendum - Wikipedia

Got any polls now that they know what the real consequences will be?

I didn’t think so.

DougBH · 2019-01-07T23:54:58.837Z

Tilly_jow:

DougBH:

What public opinion polls on Brexit showed before the actual vote:

Opinion polling for the United Kingdom European Union membership referendum - Wikipedia

Got any polls now that they know what the real consequences will be?

I didn’t think so.

If the anti Brexit side failed to make their point during the election, that is on them. Its kind of like after the Trump election, everybody on the left pretending that people had changed their mind.

Some of the pre vote polls were similar to the poll shown by the OP.

Axxowiz · 2019-01-08T00:01:10.904Z

That doesn’t really correlate with what he pointed out which is that the polls were way off, so there’s a high probability the new ones could be as well.

I don’t like to get involved in foreign politics, I just know if in the U.S. a national vote with the magnitude of Brexit was held like this with a near 5% victory and they just cancelled it out because they didn’t like the results and had a do over, that wouldn’t play.

Not sure they might not feel the same in Britain about that.

Grassroots · 2019-01-08T00:14:13.419Z

And what does that have to do with it being unpopular now? No one is disrupting the stupidity of the vote…

DougBH · 2019-01-08T01:06:44.685Z

It has to do with the fact that many polls back then were saying that Brexit would lose. I wouldn’t be surprised if that isn’t a major reason why the vote was allowed in the first place.
And now a real vote is to be reconsidered because polls that were wrong before now say so?