Britons would now vote to stay in EU, want second referendum

MoleUK · 2019-01-07T19:29:42.117Z

TommyLucchese:

Well America is getting something of a mulligan because while we’re exhibiting all the same symptoms of hyper-power decline, at least militarily speaking no one else wants the job. Not even China.

They’re slowly moving in that direction, mind.

The National Interest – 17 Nov 18

Why Is China Building So Many Different Types of Weapons?

China is in a “race with the United States and the rest of the world.”

Blackwolf · 2019-01-07T19:31:26.300Z

MoleUK:

Ireland would also suddenly have an unenforceable hard border with N.Ireland, which would be a nightmare on several fronts in and of itself.

BUILD THAT WALL!

Tilly_jow · 2019-01-07T19:34:39.478Z

TommyLucchese:

Tilly_jow:

All those Rule Britannia types don’t realize the empire is gone…forever.

Well, except for the Commonwealth of Nations and the Commonwealth Realm and being probably the biggest influence on Western civilization for the last two hundred plus years.

I’m not even really arguing your point, but the UK’s dramatic fall from imperial grace has entailed them following from the number one most powerful nation in the world to like number five. Not exactly the Hapsburgs.

The Commonwealth is just excuse to remember a once great empire and have some athletic games that no one else pays any attention to either the games or the old empire.

The Commonwealth Games should be a memorial that England’s greatest mistake of the last 150 years was entering WW I.

TommyLucchese · 2019-01-07T19:38:19.819Z

MoleUK:

They’re slowly moving in that direction, mind.

Yeah but even then, their military hasn’t really left their territory since the 1970s when Vietnam of all countries straight up whipped them in a standup fight. Their army spends most of its time making toasters and ■■■■■ I guess they like to punk out Taiwan from time to time.

Oryx · 2019-01-07T19:39:45.899Z

Tilly_jow:

Not really relevant.

Why not? I would think that avoiding the alienation of a huge percentage of the populace would be a main goal of any government.

MoleUK · 2019-01-07T19:40:46.255Z

TommyLucchese:

Yeah but even then, their military hasn’t really left their territory since the 1970s when Vietnam of all countries straight up whipped them in a standup fight. Their army spends most of its time making toasters and ■■■■■ I guess they like to punk out Taiwan from time to time.

I’d look to their activities in Africa over the next half century. I don’t see them staying out of that continent. Pretty sure they already have a base there now.

Getting more aggressive with some of their more direct neighbours too.

Tilly_jow · 2019-01-07T19:42:09.625Z

Oryx:

Tilly_jow:

Not really relevant.

Why not? I would think that avoiding the alienation of a huge percentage of the populace would be a main goal of any government.

Aren’t the Remain voters alienated by the now proven lies of the Leave side.

MoleUK · 2019-01-07T19:44:20.301Z

Actually I might have been optimistic with the half century time-frame lol.

The National Interest – 15 Aug 18

The U.S. Military Is Worried About China's Moves in Africa

The Pentagon and US State Department are reinforcing their commitment to African security and influence amid numerous reports of stepped up Chinese military and economic incursions into the region.

CNBC – 27 Jun 18

China says it will increase its military presence in Africa

From military bases to joint training exercises, Beijing is looking to establish a greater defense profile in Africa.

TommyLucchese · 2019-01-07T19:46:30.526Z

MoleUK:

I’d look to their activities in Africa over the next half century. I don’t see them staying out of that continent. Pretty sure they already have a base there now.

Getting more aggressive with some of their more direct neighbours too.

Economically I’m totally with you, but none of the other great powers have the ability to project military force on a global scale or even on a regional scale for extended periods of time. I mean no one likes to mention it, but just messing around with bits of Ukraine and Georgia and the whole Chechnya thing inside Russia has virtually broken their military.

I mean, you guys are basically number two and aren’t even playing in the same sport as us, let alone league.

MoleUK · 2019-01-07T19:49:33.117Z

TommyLucchese:

Economically I’m totally with you, but none of the other great powers have the ability to project military force on a global scale or even on a regional scale for extended periods of time. I mean no one likes to mention it, but just messing around with bits of Ukraine and Georgia and the whole Chechnya thing inside Russia has virtually broken their military.

I mean, you guys are basically number two and aren’t even playing in the same sport as us, let alone league.

We’re not even in the top 5 anymore in terms of spending.

It’s slow, but it’s happening. The Chinese only look to be ramping up.

The economic angle is only to get the foot in the door.

DOLOOP · 2019-01-07T19:52:51.155Z

■■■■ 'em.

Ingrates in the UK didn’t know they had a good thing.

EU should kick 'em to the kerb.

Give 'em a hard, hard, hard Brexit.

Oryx · 2019-01-07T19:54:24.781Z

Tilly_jow:

Aren’t the Remain voters alienated by the now proven lies of the Leave side.

Sure, but that’s very different than a government ignoring a vote and holding elections until it gets the result it wants.

Tilly_jow · 2019-01-07T20:00:24.673Z

Oryx:

Tilly_jow:

Aren’t the Remain voters alienated by the now proven lies of the Leave side.

Sure, but that’s very different than a government ignoring a vote and holding elections until it gets the result it wants.

That’s really not the case. The negations to leave have revealed the vast gap in the Leave truth of what leaving will mean. Since a second vote is possible, and the real consequences are now know, a more accurate decision can be made by the voters.

Tilly_jow · 2019-01-07T20:18:17.021Z

Oryx:

Tilly_jow:

Aren’t the Remain voters alienated by the now proven lies of the Leave side.

Sure, but that’s very different than a government ignoring a vote and holding elections until it gets the result it wants.

You need to remember, the Leave people sold this as money saving move and it’s becoming clear it’s not going to be one.

But there’s another side, literally the ‘‘Rule Britannia’’ types that don’t want any thing to do with Europe and don’t care how bad a hit the economy takes. These are mostly 60+ types, the queen and empire mentality that live in a hazy past. The worst thing you do is call these people ‘‘european’’

So now the economic types are realizing the bait and switch the ‘‘Rule Britannia’’ types have pulled and are agitating for a second vote which Leave doesn’t want because the truth is out.

DougBH · 2019-01-07T21:59:57.761Z

If there is a second referendum and the vote is to stay, then is there a third referendum if the polls change again?
Did the original referendum include a clause making the results subject to changing polls?

MoleUK · 2019-01-07T22:09:52.045Z

DougBH:

If there is a second referendum and the vote is to stay, then is there a third referendum if the polls change again?
Did the original referendum include a clause making the results subject to changing polls?

The original referendum was non-binding, parliament can ignore it if it wants.

If there were a second referendum, it wouldn’t be stay or leave.

MoleUK · 2019-01-07T22:12:29.832Z

Axxowiz:

Of course it’s relevant, even the leader of the labor party, Corbyn says there will be no new second referendum.

Corbyn is famously Eurosceptic. Many think he’s actually in favor of Brexit, though he won’t say so.

CaughtInTheMiddle · 2019-01-07T22:16:58.168Z

Maybe if the Brits learned to speak proper English, like us, they wouldn’t have to vote twice.

MoleUK · 2019-01-07T22:42:57.169Z

CaughtInTheMiddle:

Maybe if the Brits learned to speak proper English, like us, they wouldn’t have to vote twice.

Axxowiz · 2019-01-07T23:25:15.765Z

I don’t know just my outside opinion but with what’s going on the EU with the Italian budget and France riots you guys might come out as the smart ones for leaving by the time it’s all over. Little Greece brought panic and fear to the EU project awhile back, Italy is a much bigger problem.

As for Corbyn the politically smart move would be to make the Tories bring in a new vote.